Arisaka with interesting markings

[budman93]

I have what might be an interesting one for collectors of Japanese rifles. A relative of mine owns this gun and today I was able to take a good look at it and get some pictures. It is clearly an Arisaka of some kind and I know the veteran who brought it back from the Pacific. What is strange about it is the turned down bolt handle and the anchor where I would expect to find a mum or the remnants of a mum. Could it be a navy gun? I haven't been able to find any info on arisakas marked with anchors. I don't know a whole lot about the Japanese guns so I would appreciate any info you might have. (In case you can't tell, I obscured the last digit of the serial number, it isn't a 3 digit gun).

 

[bshedwick]

It looks like this is Naval Special Type 99.

Found something similar on here: http://www.gunauction.com/buy/9857520

http://www.castle-thunder.com/model.htm


Very fine looking Type 99

 

[MilsurpDan]

I agree, looks like a Type 99 Navy Special. A little outside my span of Arisaka knowledge, but Mawkie or KH195 should chime in shortly.

Here's another page of information. Scroll 3/4 down.

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arisakatype99page.html

 

[Straightbolt]

I'm guessing there are plenty of them at the bottom after the battle of Leyte Gulf

 

[Machodoc]

I'm guessing there are plenty of them at the bottom after the battle of Leyte Gulf

Yeah ... but pitted more than even Kroil can fix. A friend was diving on a Japanese "Kate" many years ago, and reached under the pilot's seat. There was a Nambu there. He was tempted to hold onto it, but since he was part of a scientific dive team doing surveys, his ethics kicked in and he put it back. He said that it still looked good enough that he could easily tell it was a Nambu, but that's about it.

 

[Machodoc]

I have what might be an interesting one for collectors of Japanese rifles. A relative of mine owns this gun and today I was able to take a good look at it and get some pictures. It is clearly an Arisaka of some kind and I know the veteran who brought it back from the Pacific. What is strange about it is the turned down bolt handle and the anchor where I would expect to find a mum or the remnants of a mum. Could it be a navy gun?

I really like that one!

 

[metalman3006]

Looks like someone took the black finish off the receiver, refinished the stock, and bent the bolt.

 

[budman93]

Looks like someone took the black finish off the receiver, refinished the stock, and bent the bolt.

Could be but I'm thinking it must have been done before pickup. I know the veteran who brought it back (along with several other rifles and pistols that were given away years ago), his son-in-law (My uncle) has it now and neither one of them have ever done anything with it. It's been sitting for years.

 

[budman93]

I didn't think the stock looked like it had been refinished.

 

[budman93]

I agree, looks like a Type 99 Navy Special. A little outside my span of Arisaka knowledge, but Mawkie or KH195 should chime in shortly.

Here's another page of information. Scroll 3/4 down.

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/arisakatype99page.html

So according to this article the receivers of these are cast iron and should not be fired. That is good to know.

Some other sources say that they are ok due to the way the lugs are designed to lock into recesses machined into the barrel to avoid putting any stress on the stock. But still probably best not to shoot it.

 

[MilsurpDan]

I didn't think the stock looked like it had been refinished.

I don't think it's refinished either due to the stock markings and paint. If I remember right, a lot of the trainers have a polyurethane looking finish which is correct. My Type 02/45 has the same looking finish. I had thought bubba put a poorly applied coat of poly on it, but some of the big Japanese collectors on Gunboards told me it was original.

 

[JohnnyE]

Yeah ... but pitted more than even Kroil can fix. A friend was diving on a Japanese "Kate" many years ago, and reached under the pilot's seat. There was a Nambu there. He was tempted to hold onto it, but since he was part of a scientific dive team doing surveys, his ethics kicked in and he put it back. He said that it still looked good enough that he could easily tell it was a Nambu, but that's about it.

When I first read that part, I pictured him diving on the Kate in a Hellcat.

 

[budman93]

I don't think it's refinished either due to the stock markings and paint. If I remember right, a lot of the trainers have a polyurethane looking finish which is correct. My Type 02/45 has the same looking finish. I had thought bubba put a poorly applied coat of poly on it, but some of the big Japanese collectors on Gunboards told me it was original.

My understanding so far is that this is not a trainer. The trainers that I have seen have generally been fairly crude and with smoothbores. This one is rifled and from what I have read, even with the cast iron receiver, was intended to be a working rifle with the redesigned locking lugs to take all the stress off of the receiver.

 

[MilsurpDan]

My understanding so far is that this is not a trainer. The trainers that I have seen have generally been fairly crude and with smoothbores. This one is rifled and from what I have read, even with the cast iron receiver, was intended to be a working rifle with the redesigned locking lugs to take all the stress off of the receiver.

Oh I know. I was just speaking in general terms about the stock. The Type 02/45 stocks were made from Navy Trainers so that's what I was referring too.

 

[budman93]

Oh I know. I was just speaking in general terms about the stock. The Type 02/45 stocks were made from Navy Trainers so that's what I was referring too.

Ah ok.

 

[KH195]

I'm late to the game on this one (been traveling), but great gun budman! Indeed a Naval "Special Type" 99 and nice example of a true late war / last ditch gun. This variation of T99 is very sought after in the Japanese collecting community. Production likely started in 1944 and was believed to have been made at training rifle facilities at Yokosuka Naval Arsenal.

Data on these is sparse in the book Military Rifles of Japan, seems there weren't many examples available at the time to get good data on serial ranges/ features. Looks like that one falls into the "early" feature category, but the serial number is right around the time features started changing (the serial number is actually the number on the right, the number to the left is like an assembly number used for matching parts).

As metalman mentioned, I too have a little bit of doubt that the gun stands now as issued. To my knowledge all rifles had the black paint applied, and aside from the designated snipers, bolt handles were not turned down on issued guns. The finish does look strange as well, but as you mentioned we are talking end of the war so anything is definitely possible! Do you know the circumstances under which the vet acquired it? If he didn't make any changes to it himself it's possible another vet modified/customized it then traded/sold it before coming back to the states. As for the markings on the stock, the two rightmost characters are "3" and "2". The one on the left, at least from what I see at a quick glance at my books could either be the kana symbol "fu" as used to designate 32nd series on Toyo Koygo rifles or a Jinsen Arsenal plant inspection mark. Since neither one of those would make sense on this gun, it could very easily have another meaning as well! I would recommend posting it up over in the Japanese section on Gunboards if you have an account there, those guys are the real experts and could tell you exactly what is/is not original on it. Great and VERY hard to find gun either way!

 

[KH195]

Follow up - are there any proof marks on the underside of the stock rear of the trigger guard assembly and tang? Usually there is at least an anchor proof on these. Could help determine if the finish/stock has been messed with.

 

[somd_mustangs]

I thought I'd actually get to use my newly acquired Type 99 book but it just mentions these rifles were covered "extensively" in another Banzai project book. Doh!
Definitely a hard one to come by, and also heartily recommend posting some pics on Gunboards as KH195 suggested, as it may add to knowledge.
Especially good closeups of any/all markings.

 

[KH195]

This guy just popped up, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=527423907 could give an indication of what these are going for now

 

[budman93]

This guy just popped up, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=527423907 could give an indication of what these are going for now

interesting. That one has the same kind of hastily machined bolt knob so the bolt on this one was probably just turned down. I thought it might have been machined to the cylinder shape from the more round shape you see on most of them.