WASR, Yugo M70, AMD-65, Saiga AK: How do they differ?

[ezeerider]

Looking to buy an inexpensive AK. I've recently seen many different versions ranging from $450 to $675. This looks like the price range I'd like to stay in. But I am confused as to what the differences are between the different versions. I've been looking at WASR's, Yugo M70 underfolders, AMD-65's and Saigas in 7.62x39. I want something with a folding stock that accepts hi-cap mags and is reliable and shoots well. There may be other models I don't know about in this price range as well. Could I get some recommendations?

 

[Jaybeez]

Wasr is a budget line of romanian rifles. quality control is somwhat lacking, and sometimes they will have crooked sights. high cap, capable, folding stock capable.

amd had a unique folding stock, and cannot be changed, it had unique forgrip that may be in the way of 30 round mags, but 20's fit fine. the muzzle brake is loud. some have shorter barrels with welded extensions to make them 16"+, other are built with 16" barrels to begin with.

Yugo have a heavy barrel and a thicker receiver. unique foregrip and stock, very few otuons on the forend. stocks come In two flavors, fixed and underfolder. they are sometimes made with worn out barrels, sometimes with new us made barrels. they take hi caps. non chrome bore.

saiga can take hicaps with mods. made in russian, good quality control. options are limitless for stocks and forends. chrome bore. Good bang for the buck in stock form, but options can add up fast and become pricey.

 

[Jaybeez]

My recommendation, get a wasr with straight sights for 450-500, or a saiga for 350-400 and convert it to pistol grip, about 100 in parts.

the romanian side folding stock is going to be the cheapest option for either, that will hold up to use. Plus its not a permanent modification, and you can switch back to a fixed stock later on.

 

[a81lp]

I just bought a saiga cause i couldnt find an ak. Jaybeez is right the options are limitless. You can build exactly what you want or leave it stock for a while and enjoy it.

 

[johny357]

I am currently searching for a compact ak47 variant myself (side/under folder). I have looked at all of the above, and will give you my take on them.

1) amd-everything I have read is that these are high quality rifles built on factory(feg) receivers. The hungarians are known for a good quality rifle. the only thing I don't like is that these are more of a novelty/fun rifle as they have a 12" barrel and a 4" muzzle break on them. I have heard they are not as accurate, and the fireball from the muzzle is blinding (bad for hd)

2) Yugo m70ab2. these are built by century arms on quality US made receivers and new barrels and with mismatched used parts from demilled yugo rifles. the receivers are built thicker than most ak's (1.6mm as apposed to the usual 1mm). these guns are built like tanks, but do not have chrome lined bbls (bad if you shoot corrosive ammo and don't clean your gun often, otherwise it does not matter). from what I hear, this is one of the few good products that century builds. There are other builds from actual yugoslavian kits (bbls and receivers) these are more expensive.

3) WASR. the above poster pretty much summed it up.

4) Saiga. An actual Saiga is imported brand new in the sporterized version (not true ak format) to accept ak mags and have pistol grip, the rifle must be modified (apparently not too difficult to do on your own, but I would never attempt this myself). these sporterized rifles are very cheap$300-$350 plus another $150 in conversion parts, making this a great deal if you convert yourself. However, you can buy these rifles already converted by the factory (arsenal), this route will cost $900-$1000.

I myself am leaning toward a yugo underfolder (if I can find one locally), as it seems the best compromise of quality and affordability. Good luck, half the fun of a new firearm is the hunt, hope this helps.

 

[Jaybeez]

I had an underfolder at one time. I hated it, it just felt awkward. Now, I would get another one, but just because I want one of everything. but I would not recommend one for your only ak, unless you try it first. this is just my humble opinion.

 

[240 towles]

I have a wasr, love it.

 

[sergey]

I have a wasr, love it.

+1. If you buy a WASR make sure that the trunion has an arsenal mark and year. As far as I know the WASRs made on arsenaled parts are superior to the early ones. (I read this on the internet so it may or may not be true).

 

[ezeerider]

Thanks, guys....... thats just the sort of first hand info I was looking for. I'm leaning towards the Saiga. Can anyone point me to a website with instructions on how to convert the Saiga to the AK format?

 

[Jaybeez]

forums.saiga12.com

 

[Jimbob2.0]

If you watch gunbroker you probably can find a decent 56s1 Norinco for around that price. Alot of them moving now with the slowdown in the economy.

 

[mudskipper]

Get the Yugo. Think again about the underfolder part, though. I have one, and got it soley as an investment gun - NOT a shooter. Reason being, I don't like feeling like I'm getting slapped in the face with a piece of cold re-bar every time I pull the trigger. Can you say "cheek weld bruising"? You'll learn to with an underfolder.

Aside from that, the Yugo M-70 series is awesome. Don't worry about the non-chrome barrels. The "original" Soviet AK's didn't have chromed barrels either. That's why God Almighty and Hoppes made cleaning kits. And it's only an issue if you shoot corrosive ammo AND don't clean. The barrels on the Century kits are made by Green Mountain Barrels - the same people who make match barrels for 10/22's and lots of other stuff.

The (much) thicker RPK style sheetmetal (for launching grenades) and the heavy duty barrel make the Yugo a very desireable AK variant. They used to be relatively cheap at $350 or so, but have gone to $600 or so lately.

The only real downside to the Yugo is some parts compatibility. Most AK furniture will NOT fit on a Yugo. Same goes for some gas system components.

 

[aquaman]

M70 Yugo's are all milled receiver right?

 

[...]

Romanian WASR-10/63 - Own it
Yugo M70 - Own it
Hungarian AMD-65 - Own it

Saiga AK - don't have one, but don't really care.

These guns are all more or less the same thing, a stamped AK that can take some accessories.

If you want the very best AK type rifle, that is not really and AK, get a sa VZ-58. It is milled, striker fired, has a real safety and is much lighter.

 

[hole punch]

ignore these guys.

the real answer? one of each

 

[Ethan83]

M70 Yugo's are all milled receiver right?

Nope, but the metal is significantly thicker - either 1.5 or 1.6mm (I've heard both, never measured myself) instead of the standard 1.0mm. The barrels are also heavier (or at least my CIA imported one is). They basically have the ruggedness of an RPK, but in a more 'standard' format.

The underfolder's wire stock can be pretty uncomfortable, but it's never bruised me or anything close to it. However, to get a better cheek weld for both sight picture and comfort, I've wrapped a bandanna tightly around the left side. It will still totally collapse. I also don't think it hurts to have an extra bandanna for SHTF situations where you might need it to wipe down the weapon, cut it up for patches, or even use as a bandage of tourniquet. Maybe I'll try to take a picture when I get home this evening if anyone's interested.

 

[Ethan83]

If you want the very best AK type rifle, that is not really and AK, get a sa VZ-58. It is milled, striker fired, has a real safety and is much lighter.

Sorry to double post... I wasn't familiar with this weapon, so I just looked it up on Wikipedia. While it cosmetically looks very similar to an AK, it seems that the action is extremely similar to that of an SKS. Am I wrong here?

 

[hole punch]

Sorry to double post... I wasn't familiar with this weapon, so I just looked it up on Wikipedia. While it cosmetically looks very similar to an AK, it seems that the action is extremely similar to that of an SKS. Am I wrong here?

right. no parts commonality between AKM and vz.58

again, the answer is "one of each"

 

[Bobjet]

Hello Easy Rider - I registered to respond since I've done virtually all the builds you are curious about. I started with a Romanian "G" - parkerized it and put an East German laminated stock set on it and it turned out gorgeous, but is was "less comfortable” to fire since it was so light – it had a thin barrel and receiver and the action isn’t all that smooth. Then I built a Yugo RPK - don't ask me why, but I did. That thing is super accurate but oh so heavey, loong and cumbersome. Then I started reading some really good reviews on the Yugo M70's, and I have now built up 3 - not including the RPK which is basically an M70 with a longer thicker barrel with fins to dissipate the heat since they were designed to lay down suppressive fire. One of the M70's I built is a milled receiver version from Ohio Rapid Fire which I built for the hell of it. I like it a lot and it’s a great looking weapon, but the receiver was out of spec and I had to fool with it to get the weapon to propepy A milled receiver AK is the expensive route – and super heavy - My favorite is on of my well pakerized stamped receiver versions. I gotta say that I think the M70AB1 stands heads and tails above the rest of the AK’s - no question. It will hold its value FAR better, has a better pistol grip which is ergonomically correct to fit the hand, and looks far cooler (just look at the rest of the AK's and then the yugos and you will see what I mean). These Ak's feel super solid when you fire them, a direct affect of the thick receiver and thicker barrel which is reflected in the rifles accuracy. A few standout features of the M70 are well thought out, with cool little features like flip up tritium night site vials on the sight which I hear you can replace (tritium lasts about 12 years before it stops glowing) - I just replaced mine altogether with Meprolight tritium sights front and back. Finally, and this is just my opinion to all thise with theirs - the Yugo M70AB1 hand down looks far cooler than the rest of the AK's - they have better lines, a solid rubber buttock cap that's tough as hell, and the buttstock is held to the receiver by around - yeah, I know it's metric – a 9/16th's bolt that runs through the length of the buttstock and bolts the stock onto a very stout rear trunion. This is FAR more securely then "standard" AK's – and you can feel it when you fire the weapon. If you gave the thing to Jimmy Henrdrix (unloaded for sure!) at the end of his show on one of his acid trips where he’d normally be smashing guitar after guitar, the M70 would make it through the abuse without damage – although his Marshalls would be total goners. A more common variety of AK would easily have the buttstock smashed off. Where in the world do I get these analogies… Anyway, the M70 has always continued to increase in value, like all AK’s they are pretty easy to assemble if your are mechanically inclined, more accurate then those AK's with thinner receivers (the thin receivers flex a LOT when that monster of a bolt carrier they installed in the AK - and that throws off the barrel - so accuracy suffers. The barrel is also thicker, again improving accuracy. The dust cover is usually quite thick on the M70 since these rifles had the capability to lunch grenades – it’s just nice to have that heavy bolt carrier restrained so well, especially so close to your face while the rifle is cycling. This rifle is built like a brick $}{!+ house, looks cool, is rarer than most types and fun to talk about. And. I believ the value will continue to climb, although I would consider I a==. - Darn I sure wrote quite a bit here - So it's obvious I am biased - but man I love my M70's and am always proud to haul 'em out with on our private high desert shooting range and out class "high end" AK built be so called experts.

Well, ood luck in your search - and no matter which style AK you go with - for heavens sake use a DCI - NoDak/spud receiver - they are the tops in the receiver business and every hole, all the rails, cut outs, and dimensions are spot on. These guys are super nice as well and were always totally open and patient with what were – in retrospect – oh – somewhat stupid questions upon reflection looking back - but they were always patient and helpful - and now here I an recommending their products. I have always used screw builds and have not experienced any negatives in doing so. I use the blue/purple loctight so I can break the rifles down when necessary - sometimes it's damn nice to be able take the rifles totally apart for one reason or another - transportation is one, and believe me - when they do not look like AK-47's they are far less threatening to folks then when they do. Remove six screws and the buttstock bolt = and these things are easy to store/transport and look quite none threatening.

Well I hope this helped, I'm surprised I had so darn much to say - but I do truly love these rifles. If you have any questions I’ll be happy to point you in the right direction.

Bob

 

[rob-cubed]

Got a bunch of AKs (my favorite gun). I would stay away from WASRs unless you can give it a good look-over first. Quality control is generally lacking and even if you get a decent one, it will never be particularly accurate. I have one but it'll be the first to be sold if I need money.

Yugo is a good choice, they are pretty well made, but the underfolder is a pain (as others have mentioned). I have a MAK90 that is converted to PG that also has a thicker receiver (1.5mm) and it behaves better than thinner receivers once it warms up.

Saigas... well they are hands-down a best buy. In their imported form they look fugly, but are easy to convert for around $100 and a few hours of basement labor. Nothing can touch them for accuracy or build quality until you get into the $1000 range. Arsenal even does several builds around Saiga receivers, if that tells you anything. If you really want to shoot cheap, get one of the 5.45 Saigas.