uh oh.... grocery clerk kills drunken customer who drew

[Baccusboy]

This will get twisted like Trayvon by the left:

But man was "no stranger" to local law enforcement.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/11/06/karschs-village-market-shooting/18594023/

Local media and law handled it well.

 

[RepublicanJD]

This will get twisted like Trayvon:

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/11/06/karschs-village-market-shooting/18594023/

How?

 

[DutchV]

Eh. Sounds okay so far.

 

[Vile Shadow]

This will get twisted like Trayvon by the left.

I kinda doubt it. The video doesn't specify the races of the shooter and victim, so they must not lend themselves to the usual race baiting.

 

[Baccusboy]

How?

Not race.

Some idiot will say he should not have followed, etc.

 

[DC-W]

That employee was trying to prevent harm to the driver and others on the road.

In this case, it sounds like Darwin won.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Prevent theft and loss of property - illegal.

Whats next?

Prevent injury/loss of loved one - illegal

Prevent injury/loss of own life - illegal

Welcome to Ameriland, thugs rule our lives world.

 

[fabsroman]

What right did the employee have to demand the keys and follow the customer out to his car while demanding the keys? Once the customer was out of the store, the employee should have called the police to report a drunk driver IF the customer got in the vehicle. Call the police and give them license plate and vehicle description and leave it at that.

Who knows what the heck the customer was thinking after some store employee follows him to his car demanding his keys. I can see a lot of things wrong with this. The "concerned citizen" went a little too far as far as I am concerned (how do you like that word play?). Wonder how the local authorities would take it if I hung out outside of bars, followed drunks to their vehicles, and demanded their keys from them?

For the record, I HATE drunk drivers. Pretty much dislike drunks in general. Doesn't get much worse than drunks with guns.

 

[Baccusboy]

Fabs, that is all correct, IMHO, right up until the drunk guy pulled a gun on the employee. Would you be legally correct to pull a gun on someone if you were being kept from driving, even if you were not drunk? Even take drinking out of the equation, and there is no justifiable reason why the guy pulled his gun. There was NO THREAT to the drunk guy's life. He COULD have called the police himself, and reported being harrassed, for example. So why didn't he? What made him feel justified to pull a gun?

Police had already been called. We have not been told why. This is a case where someone really stupid got killed for stupidly thinking a gun would solve a problem that a gun was never meant to solve. And he paid for it with his life.

 

[gamer_jim]

The drunkenness and car keys are irrelevant. The article says the man shot pulled a gun first which put the clerk in immediate and grave danger.

 

[K31]

What right did the employee have to demand the keys and follow the customer out to his car while demanding the keys?

The first amendment.

There's no words you can speak as far as I know that gives you the right to threaten someone with deadly force. Especially if you are behind the wheel of a car and he's on foot.

There's also nothing in the story that says anyone "demanded" the keys from the alleged drunk, or displayed a weapon themselves before the alleged drunk did.

 

[Augie]

What right did the employee have to demand the keys and follow the customer out to his car while demanding the keys? Once the customer was out of the store, the employee should have called the police to report a drunk driver IF the customer got in the vehicle. Call the police and give them license plate and vehicle description and leave it at that.

Who knows what the heck the customer was thinking after some store employee follows him to his car demanding his keys. I can see a lot of things wrong with this. The "concerned citizen" went a little too far as far as I am concerned (how do you like that word play?). Wonder how the local authorities would take it if I hung out outside of bars, followed drunks to their vehicles, and demanded their keys from them?

For the record, I HATE drunk drivers. Pretty much dislike drunks in general. Doesn't get much worse than drunks with guns.

I've got to agree with you on this one, I think the clerk will end up being charged.
If the drunk had pulled the gun in the store when asked to leave there would be no question that the clerk was in the right. However following the drunk out of the store and confronting him, I think the clerk went to far.

 

[NormH3]

What right did the employee have to demand the keys and follow the customer out to his car while demanding the keys? Once the customer was out of the store, the employee should have called the police to report a drunk driver IF the customer got in the vehicle. Call the police and give them license plate and vehicle description and leave it at that.

Who knows what the heck the customer was thinking after some store employee follows him to his car demanding his keys. I can see a lot of things wrong with this. The "concerned citizen" went a little too far as far as I am concerned (how do you like that word play?). Wonder how the local authorities would take it if I hung out outside of bars, followed drunks to their vehicles, and demanded their keys from them?

For the record, I HATE drunk drivers. Pretty much dislike drunks in general. Doesn't get much worse than drunks with guns.

Interesting comment. Let's say the employee didn't pursue and called the cops. Guy drives out of the parking lot and takes out the first car coming down the road. Sort of a moot point at this time.

Most people get CCW permits because it takes police at least several minutes to arrive...sometimes longer.

The employee didn't follow the customer into the parking lot with his firearm drawn. He used it to defend himself when his life was threatened.

 

[Venge]

Not race.

Some idiot will say he should not have followed, etc.

I am that idiot.

What right did the employee have to demand the keys and follow the customer out to his car while demanding the keys?

And this is why.

I hate drunk driving as much as the next guy, but people have to understand that carrying a firearm comes with new responsibilities, one of which is that you must not escalate any kind of unnecessary confrontation. Whether this is a concept in law is something a lawyer would know. I call it a moral obligation.

The correct thing to do at that point was to call the police. The whole situation just seems unfortunate. That said, I still think that the clerk should not be convicted of murder if the story happened as written, since I guess he really was reacting to having a gun pointed. I am no lawyer, but the words "Negligent homicide" seem to describe this situation.

EDIT: Nah, I Don't even know about that. Gosh this just feels like everyone F***ed up. Maybe it's just something that happened because some guy was drunk and some guy played hero. Oh well, I'm sure we'll learn.

 

[Baccusboy]

I have to say, it seems really, really odd that a clerk would be so forceful to take someone's keys. I think we aren't getting the whole story and are jumping to conclusions.

The video says the drunk guy was "known to the cops." In other words, he was a known problem in the area.

Too many unknowns about his past, or what went down in the store.

Glad I am not the clerk.

 

[Brychan]

Clerk was correct in asking him to leave the store, also in asking the guy to give him his keys and telling him he would get him a ride home. Thats where it ends, he should not have followed him to his car, he should have called the police and reported it to them. By following, the drunk guys persecption he may have felt threatened and harrassed.
If the drunk had not had a gun would the clerk westled the guy to ground and taken his keys?

 

[Blaster229]

Not race.

Some idiot will say he should not have followed, etc.

I would be that idiot because this is what the lawsuit will be about when the family sues.
It is not for a grocery store clerk to dictate who is drunk and shouldn't drive.

Quite simply if he wouldn't have followed trying to get his keys, he would have not been in the position at his vehicle for this shooting to happen.

 

[Inigoes]

Self defense pure and simple

 

[Baccusboy]

If the guy had threatened to drive the car through the front of the store, would you have felt any different?

Simply too many unknowns. And yes, it still seems weird, weird, weird that the store clerk was both carrying, and following the guy around outside, past a point.

We also don't know HOW wasted the guy was. The police seem to think that he was a pretty big danger to those around, and moreso if he had gotten behind the wheel. But yes, a judge will likely look at this pretty hard.

 

[Blaster229]

Self defense pure and simple

Is it self defense if you put yourself in a position where you need to use self defense? No LEGAL reason in this world for that grocery clerk to follow this guy outside. Sure it was self defense, but what caused this shooting?

" Mr. grocery store clerk, isn't it true that if you didn't follow this patron out to his vehicle, there would have been no reason for this deadly force to happen?".

It's a yes or no question.