With OnTarget starting to releasing after 7 days now who will be next?

[GTOGUNNER]

I hear ya...

This is an individual FFL's call, and completely within their "MAY" discretion and comfort level.

But remember... we are dealing with many people (and not just here, so no names) who are only focused on "what about my..."

It's understandable, but they have got to at least hear that this is a big-picture issue, and one size NEVER fits all.



Thus, the MSI/AGC/MLFDA/"Doe Family" lawsuit.

The word "may" will not be removed from the law by the law suit. I doubt we will gain anything useful from it.

 

[Mr H]

The word "may" will not be removed from the law by the law suit. I doubt we will gain anything useful from it.

Not sure where you thought I said it would be removed...

I'm supporting an FFL's right to make their own decision.

As for the lawsuit?? I see it as a hotfoot to the MSP, where they'll either tell FFLs it's OK to start releasing, or do something to rile up the dragons even more.

 

[jpo183]

Something people need to also remember. IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST for the FFL to release.

Currently FFL's have no more room to store this stuff, it risks robbery, etc. The other big thing is this: A lot of FFLs are sitting on a lot of inventory that is only half paid for. A lot of FFLs accept a down payment / half the purchase price then hold the other half until the MSP paperwork is done.

The FFLs should all be willing to release. There is no liability in releasing if they are following the law, just as another person made an example:

You go buy a motorcycle without a license the motorcycle dealer is not responsible for your actions. There are many more examples like this. I keep saying this over and over, why are the part time FFLs not all releasing. Its a low risk "make your stand" action that they can do.

 

[yellowsled]

Just called because i knew something was not right... placed on review? Really????

Goen through this process dozen or so times, also a des. collector... SSN provided, how I am under review? WTF...


On a side note, the lady I spoke to was very receptive and nice and said they are just about on 2/28 for reviews so I should have something back shortly...

 

[fred2207]

They have taken a position on it, they have said its black and white in the law book. There is no need for them to draft something on msp letterhead, it's there for all to see. The ATF has confirmed this as well as individuals who have hired attorneys have confirmed this, yet you still think this is not fact. It's like saying, I know the speed limit is 65 from the sign but I'm going to wait till MSP sends me a letter on official letterhead telling me its 65. I have some stripped lowers I will be signing for this week when they arrive and picking up 8 days later. You know why? I finally found a FFL who is following the law.

The frustrating part is, like I said before, is that we have to be subjected to non existent laws on top of what this state has already passed. The MSI lawsuit will go nowhere on the basis that the FFLs are the ones not releasing the guns in the correct timeframe, not the MSP. They will be told that the law is written where the FFL is able to release and that's that. I'm sure someone will come back and say, "see we needed a judge to tell us it's alright". But there will still not be any MSP letters going out the law will be reaffirmed.

I agree with you. However, as long as an FFL perceives a liability potential, there will be no change as the nanny state rubs off on most, realized or not. I have finally realized that’s just the way it’s going to be. We have all those social service dependent free loader minions, supporting the progressive’s politicians, both dependent on each other for their existence, to thank for where we are today.

Fred

 

[Mr H]

Just called because i knew something was not right... placed on review? Really????

Goen through this process dozen or so times, also a des. collector... SSN provided, how I am under review? WTF...


On a side note, the lady I spoke to was very receptive and nice and said they are just about on 2/28 for reviews so I should have something back shortly...

Obviously, you just have too many, and they're making sure that your guns haven't gone out as a gang and caused mischief....

 

[why2kmax]

They have taken a position on it, they have said its black and white in the law book. There is no need for them to draft something on msp letterhead, it's there for all to see. The ATF has confirmed this as well as individuals who have hired attorneys have confirmed this, yet you still think this is not fact. It's like saying, I know the speed limit is 65 from the sign but I'm going to wait till MSP sends me a letter on official letterhead telling me its 65. I have some stripped lowers I will be signing for this week when they arrive and picking up 8 days later. You know why? I finally found a FFL who is following the law.

The frustrating part is, like I said before, is that we have to be subjected to non existent laws on top of what this state has already passed. The MSI lawsuit will go nowhere on the basis that the FFLs are the ones not releasing the guns in the correct timeframe, not the MSP. They will be told that the law is written where the FFL is able to release and that's that. I'm sure someone will come back and say, "see we needed a judge to tell us it's alright". But there will still not be any MSP letters going out the law will be reaffirmed.

We are all technically right, we are just arguing from different angles.

1. RavenR6s statement above is completely correct and is what the law states. IMO it is 100% correct and was written without any clue we would be where we are today. I believe if the FFL follows the rules and releases after 8 days they will be in compliance with the law.

UNFORTUNATELY, what Teratos says is currently a very very real possibility in this ZOMG-NooneShouldOwnGunsInMD state


....and still MD doesn't care about how long you wait. MD doesn't care about the FFL having to hold all this stock until the paperwork comes back. You can be sure that if something is wrong, MD will attack the FFL with their nearly unlimited legal resources and that FFL will be in for a world of hurt.


while the law says one thing, it is very likely that it could be/is/will be interpreted to the left of what was written, considering this current political climate, IF they so choose.

I applaud FFLs that are releasing per the law, but at least they seem to have good legal topcover for doing so, or ballz the size of the moon.
For those that arent, I cant really fault them for not wanting to put their livelihood in jeopardy should the state want to make an example of them.

This state certainly ignored the million+ emails/faxes/calls and thousands that protested against SB281. This state has so far successfully denied our right to CCW even though other courts have ruled in our favor. And, This state and its leaders have shown no regard for common sense, the will of the people they govern, or the law, when it doesnt suit their agenda.
I dont blame any FFL that doesnt want to roll the dice against that right now, at least not alone. IF they all agreed to do it all at once, it might be a different story and MSP would have to relent, Or Herr Governor would tell his politically appointed MSP leaders to close em all down.

 

[Mark75H]

This state certainly ignored the million+ emails/faxes/calls and thousands that protested against SB281. This state has so far successfully denied our right to CCW even though other courts have ruled in our favor. And, This state and its leaders have shown no regard for common sense, the will of the people they govern, or the law, when it doesnt suit their agenda.

Words worth repeating

 

[BVG]

On Target.....

They released mine today.....purchased on 4/30....I had to sign the waiver, but as I see it, On Target is following the law. It is not the dealers problem nor the purchasers issue that MSP has a staffing issue or a computer problem etc. the law makes no "the dog ate my homework" provision. If I don't see the speed limit sign or my speedometer is broken am I absolved from paying for the speeding ticket....just a thought

 

[TopShelf]

I'm not an expert but I remember reading that an NICS record is not kept on file (by law) so there should be no way for them to check that you recently had a not disqualified.

Interesting. That I did not know. So they would just keep on file that one is a MD Designated Collector, and no record at all of the purchases or research done to give prior ND's? Or is it just the NICS status that is not kept? So many things to keep track of...hope we can vote out enough gun-grabbers to scrap this entire process The line between gun registry and no gun registry is seeming a bit blurred to me...

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Interesting. That I did not know. So they would just keep on file that one is a MD Designated Collector, and no record at all of the purchases or research done to give prior ND's? Or is it just the NICS status that is not kept? So many things to keep track of...hope we can vote out enough gun-grabbers to scrap this entire process The line between gun registry and no gun registry is seeming a bit blurred to me...

There is a "voluntary registration" box at the bottom of all the forms I sign for regulated purchases. And per the law, I posted, they keep track of what you purchased and not disapproved/approved status in MD also as permanent records... Not sure they do at the federal level (NICS)

 

[A1Uni]

Interesting. That I did not know. So they would just keep on file that one is a MD Designated Collector, and no record at all of the purchases or research done to give prior ND's? Or is it just the NICS status that is not kept? So many things to keep track of...hope we can vote out enough gun-grabbers to scrap this entire process The line between gun registry and no gun registry is seeming a bit blurred to me...

Your Maryland Regulated purchases are saved on file and easily retrievable by law enforcement forever via the MGUN state database; it has been that way for years.

The NICS computer checks drop off the system and are not retrievable by users after about 24 hours once opened and read.

 

[TopShelf]

+1 for not picking on the FFLs. There is the letter of the law, and then there is the real world. In a state like MD, things will be made difficult on them in some other way. Plus there are other implications...the way I see it, FFL's cant very well just advertise that they release to everyone after 7 days - that would be a free-for-all to criminals who would then know not so much as a NICS would be run on their gun purchase. Well I guess FFL's could do that, but I don’t think that puts us law-abiding citizens in a better place overall. Just my $0.02.

 

[TopShelf]

There is a "voluntary registration" box at the bottom of all the forms I sign for regulated purchases. And per the law, I posted, they keep track of what you purchased and not disapproved/approved status in MD also as permanent records... Not sure they do at the federal level (NICS)

Your Maryland Regulated purchases are saved on file and easily retrievable by law enforcement forever via the MGUN state database; it has been that way for years.

The NICS computer checks drop off the system and are not retrievable by users after about 24 hours once opened and read.

Thanks for the additional info. I assume they would also keep records on prior research done, and not need to re-do some of that research. Maybe that is already the process they follow, and the delayed processing is purely because of the volume of applications. I would bet some efficiency could be gained somewhere, without violating some additional laws pertaining to record keeping

Sorry to OP, as I am getting a bit off topic here

 

[A1Uni]

Thanks for the additional info. I assume they would also keep records on prior research done, and not need to re-do some of that research. Maybe that is already the process they follow, and the delayed processing is purely because of the volume of applications. I would bet some efficiency could be gained somewhere, without violating some additional laws pertaining to record keeping

Sorry to OP, as I am getting a bit off topic here

Nope, it is done from scratch each time.

 

[jhcrab]

Question to FFL's - before the SHTF, what did you do in the past if the MSP did not respond within the 7 day period ? Did you release on day 8 or 10 or did you wait until the "not disapproved" was received ? Did you release the purchase after 14 or 21 or ... days. If you did release before MSP response, were there any repercussions ?

 

[Lou45]

Depending on day app was filled out, it generally took 10 to 15 days for paperwork to return ND.

 

[rmiddle]

Question to FFL's - before the SHTF, what did you do in the past if the MSP did not respond within the 7 day period ? Did you release on day 8 or 10 or did you wait until the "not disapproved" was received ? Did you release the purchase after 14 or 21 or ... days. If you did release before MSP response, were there any repercussions ?

From my talking to an FFL they have never really seen times this far out. My first purchase actually took 8 days to process. I just got it a day later. Most people aren't going to care at under 14 days. Maybe some old timers can confirm. My understanding is there hasn't been any where near this level of backlog since they cleared there initial backlog when starting 20 years ago.

Thanks
Robert

 

[jhcrab]

Depending on day app was filled out, it generally took 10 to 15 days for paperwork to return ND.

So your experience shows that the MSP has had NO respect for the letter of the Law ,now or in the past.
Lou, did you transfer to the buyer after 7 day's or wait for the paperwork to be returned ?

 

[daggo66]

Depending on day app was filled out, it generally took 10 to 15 days for paperwork to return ND.

My 3 prior regulated purchases never took longer than 7 days, including one in early December.