SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[esqappellate]

Esqappelleate says Judges in the 4CA are assigned the day of the hearing. No way to know in advance.

Not at all clear who set the date of response. This from the 4th Circuit's local rules on motions panels:

There is a strong presumption that the Court will act, in all but routine procedural matters,through panels or en banc, as prescribed by 28 U.S.C. § 46(c).

 

[Merlin]

There are some new approaches here, but they are all aimed squarely at re-litigating the merits of the case itself. That is what the appeal is for.

I don't see a single word explaining how the district court abused their discretion. Nor do I see anything here addressing their public safety argument - they acknowledge fewer than 300 crimes over five years in a population the GAO just said was over 8 million. Do the math.

They are pinning their request on the 'novelty' of the case. As far as it goes, that is the best chance they got. Frankly, this will all come down to the judge(s) reviewing the request.

And if the judges bother to do the math.

 

[Merlin]

Not at all clear who set the date of response. This from the 4th Circuit's local rules on motions panels:

There is a strong presumption that the Court will act, in all but routine procedural matters,through panels or en banc, as prescribed by 28 U.S.C. § 46(c).

Esq, new stay or not, how long do you think this case in the 4th will take?

 

[Blacksmith101]

If I remember back when many were upset with how much time Judge Legg took to rule on the last stay it was pointed out that the better crafted his response was the less likely his ruling would be overturned. We may find out we should appreciate the care he took.

Blacksmith101

 

[swinokur]

^^^^^^^^
THIS

 

[Lightning]

If I remember back when many were upset with how much time Judge Legg too to rule on the last stay it was pointed out that the better crafted his response was the less likely his ruling would be overturned. We may find out we should appreciate the care he took.

Blacksmith101

Amen to that….If I remember correctly, I thought some of our Legal Eagles had mentioned that the degree of difficulty for the State increased exponentially if Judge Legg denied the stay. I guess it depends on who sits on the motions panel, but Legg’s rulings throughout the process have been based on the merits of the case. The State’s position has always been nothing but emotional plea’s that the court has seen right through. Although anything can happen, we just need to be patient as the law is on our side. Just look at the other states in our circuit.

 

[fatboyloball]

In his deciscion Judge Legg was guided by cases already heard by upper courts like Heller and McDonald and Marci- something. Using this guidance means that Judge Legg realized his decisions needed to mirror those above him. Doing so certainly showed that Legg did not abuse his discretion. This also means that Maryland's chances of success at appeal are basically zero. I can't imagine the CA4 issuing a stay because delaying those rights now recognized for even a minute causes undue harm. IANAL, but it seems that Legg positioned everything in a way that said I'm not stepping on the toes of those above me.

 

[Merlin]

If I remember back when many were upset with how much time Judge Legg too to rule on the last stay it was pointed out that the better crafted his response was the less likely his ruling would be overturned. We may find out we should appreciate the care he took.

Blacksmith101

I think your right.

 

[esqappellate]

Esq, new stay or not, how long do you think this case in the 4th will take?

If you mean the merits, I will have a better idea after they set the oral argument date. As a rule the 4th is pretty fast. The earliest would be late 2012. More likely first quarter 2013

 

[Merlin]

If you mean the merits, I will have a better idea after they set the oral argument date. As a rule the 4th is pretty fast. The earliest would be late 2012. More likely first quarter 2013

Forgive me but not knowing what the merits are, I mean when it is said and done where we know if this will be the law of the land or go back to the old way?

 

[esqappellate]

Esqappelleate says Judges in the 4CA are assigned the day of the hearing. No way to know in advance.

Well, not assigned the day of the hearing, just not announced publicly until the day of the hearing. The assignment is earlier so as to give the judges and the clerks an opportunity to read the briefs and prepare for oral argument.

 

[esqappellate]

Forgive me but not knowing what the merits are, I mean when it is said and done where we know if this will be the law of the land or go back to the old way?

The "merits" refers to whether Judge Legg was correct or incorrect in holding Section 5(ii) to be unconstitutional. As distinguished from the stay, which is governed by the 4 factors set forth in Judge Legg's latest opinion. The prior answer applies to merits/

 

[esqappellate]

In his deciscion Judge Legg was guided by cases already heard by upper courts like Heller and McDonald and Marci- something. Using this guidance means that Judge Legg realized his decisions needed to mirror those above him. Doing so certainly showed that Legg did not abuse his discretion. This also means that Maryland's chances of success at appeal are basically zero. I can't imagine the CA4 issuing a stay because delaying those rights now recognized for even a minute causes undue harm. IANAL, but it seems that Legg positioned everything in a way that said I'm not stepping on the toes of those above me.

I have no difficulty in imagining a stay by the CA4. Recall that we are on the cutting edge of 2A law. A motions panel will not purport to decide the merits, but it could easily decide that the issue is close enough to warrant a stay to keep the status quo in place until the merits are decided by the merits panel.

 

[swinokur]

Well, not assigned the day of the hearing, just not announced publicly until the day of the hearing. The assignment is earlier so as to give the judges and the clerks an opportunity to read the briefs and prepare for oral argument.

oops. My bad.

 

[esqappellate]

oops. My bad.

That's 20 lashes with a wet noodle for you...

 

[Merlin]

I have no difficulty in imagining a stay by the CA4. Recall that we are on the cutting edge of 2A law. A motions panel will not purport to decide the merits, but it could easily decide that the issue is close enough to warrant a stay to keep the status quo in place until the merits are decided by the merits panel.

Esq,

Do you think my shopping bag is to much to soon?

 

[esqappellate]

Esq,

Do you think my shopping bag is to much to soon?

Rather bold. Hope it doesn't get you shot!

 

[swinokur]

That's 20 lashes with a wet noodle for you...

ouch that hurts

 

[Dklo]

I have no difficulty in imagining a stay by the CA4. Recall that we are on the cutting edge of 2A law. A motions panel will not purport to decide the merits, but it could easily decide that the issue is close enough to warrant a stay to keep the status quo in place until the merits are decided by the merits panel.

But seeing as how the overwhelming majority of the country (including much of CA4s jurisdiction) does not have G&S for their permit systems, is it really that cutting edge? Like Judge Legg said, the evidence doesnt point in either direction in terms of harm or benefit to public safety. Do you really think they will issue a stay?

 

[esqappellate]

ouch that hurts

I *know* you're much tougher than that!