Enclosed Case or an Enclosed Holster???

[xd40c]

Troopers don't like to be sued. They will call a superior who knows the laws better first, or call the AG's office maybe before committing on a gray area I hope.

Let me testify to that:

Not long after I recieved my Permit, I was standing outside the bank talking with the ARMED guard, having just made a deposit. An Aberdeen police officer drove up and questioned me about my side arm. I presented my Permit for his inspection. Now at the time I was uninformed, but MD officers "prefer" the weapon to be concealed. I was OCing. So the officer drives around the building and parks for a few minutes. He then comes back and explains that he has spoken with his superior, and they would prefer to have the weapon concealed. So I pulled my shirt out.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Holster with strap is legal. The test is to require a separate motion to access gun.
Of course if gun is completely enclosed, particularly if outermost contaner doesn't scream firearm, the question is much less likely to arrise.

 

[esqappellate]

Holster with strap is legal. The test is to require a separate motion to access gun.
Of course if gun is completely enclosed, particularly if outermost contaner doesn't scream firearm, the question is much less likely to arrise.

Don't be too sure about that: From: http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1659404&postcount=1973




Dear Mr. D****,



The term “enclosed holster” is not defined in statute or regulation.



There have been two Opinions of the Attorney General and one Maryland Court of Appeals decision referring to the term. I quote the relevant portions below:



Term "enclosed holster" used in paragraph (b) (5) means a holster so designed as to restrict in some way access to the handgun so that a fastening device or closure has to be opened, released, or removed before the weapon can be exposed or freed from the holster and made immediately available for use. 57 Op. Att'y Gen. 502 (1972).



The nature of an enclosed case within the contemplation of the statute should be considered in the light of the purpose of the statute to transport the guns in a secure manner, deny easy access to them and render them safe and harmless during transit. In our opinion, any type of closed case or receptacle that would insure carrying out the statutory purpose would constitute a sufficient compliance. 58 Op. Atty Gen. Md. 375 (1973).



It could hardly have been the legislative intent to permit guns to be carried in an unfastened sack when it used the language "carried in an enclosed case or enclosed holster." While this language may not require a customary gun case or holster, it does require more than an unfastened sack. Jordan v. State, 24 Md. App. 267, 274, 330 A.2d 496, 501 (1975).



Mark H. Bowen

Assistant Attorney General

 

[Biggfoot44]

That's what I was refrencing , and what I thought I said back then , did I misstate somthing or not express clearly ?

 

[esqappellate]

That's what I was refrencing , and what I thought I said back then , did I misstate somthing or not express clearly ?

I think a mere strap on the holster might well prove insufficient, especially if the holster is on your hip or on the seat next to you. Not worth the risk of prosecution to find out.

 

[HollowPoint]

WOW! Great thread!

But now my head hurts!

What's a citizen to do when you ask attorneys and LEO's and get numerous 'unofficial' answers on this question?

I ask humbly: Am I to understand I need to keep $5000 stashed away to exercise my rights? Are the rights given to me by The Constitution only for those that can shell out truck loads of dollars to defend them in court? Does this reality discriminate against the poor who also have these rights? Do I need to suffer the legal 'sausage machine' to feed attorneys and grease the palms of those that profit from our legal system to exercise my right to enjoy my firearms?

Because these thoughts race through my head every time I pack up to go to the range. Plus, I take my son with me. I feel like I'm walking through a mine field.

Please don't get me wrong here. Not trying to be a smart ass. Actually I'm bewildered.

 

[TheCrow]

When going to the range/gunsmith I always keep my gun, (unloaded of course) in a gun case(just the glock case it came in) with empty mags then ammo and other gear in a separate range bag. I transport the gun and range bag in the trunk. Then I obey all traffic laws

I have heard that if you don't have a trunk (like a pickup truck) you need the gun in a locked case, not 100% though it makes sense.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Unless you are seeking to become a test case on purpose, I am not advocating transporting the unloaded pistol in a holster with strap , that also happens to be worn on your person. This discussion ( and start of this thread in '10 ) are presuming that the gun is transported in a manner and location otherwise according to statute , plus whatever common sense discretion a person otherwise uses. Ie in trunk , inaccessable area of truck/ SUV, etc .

The distinction is being made in the Statute between those holster with a strap securing the gun vs those open topped , tension screw , wet molded , and probably hammer thong also.

I don't have an LLB or JD behind my name , but I have thourghly studied the Annotated Art 27 on the subject , even though I should double check the recodified edition.

The distinction of a seperate means of securing , requiring a seperate motion to access is a concept that occures semiregularily in various portions of the gun related statutes of the various states in different contexts , so this is not a random one off idea.

Of course Md is Md , things get made up on the spot no matter how careful you are , and it is then up to your Atty to snatch justice from the jaws of arbitrary and capricious system.

 

[swinokur]

MD law makes no reference to locks.

 

[9613]

What about a holster with a strap / thumb break that is mounted to the vehicle?

 

[daggo66]

If stopped for violating traffic law, and asked if you have any weapons in the car, if you are transporting a handgun in accordance with 4-203, you may choose to indicate that you do have it, where it's located and where you're going with it. In the other extreme, you have a right to say nothing, communicate and cooperate only after consulting an attorney and not consent to any searches. The first option is less costly, so I'd personally go with that.

I disagree. Say nothing, admit to nothing, do not consent to any search.

 

[smores]

I disagree. Say nothing, admit to nothing, do not consent to any search.

I've been pulled over a few times in MD with firearms in the car. I wasn't asked about them and didn't talk about them. For a routine traffic stop you shouldn't be asked if your car can be searched.

The real question is what happens if they ask? You can deny the request but they will most likely get the K9 squad out and look for a way into the vehicle, from what I understand.

In my experience, be pleasant and relaxed, maybe slightly bashful with the officer and you'll get a warning or a ticket. My car has never been searched except for when going onto military bases.



Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

 

[DaedalEVE]

I think a mere strap on the holster might well prove insufficient, especially if the holster is on your hip or on the seat next to you. Not worth the risk of prosecution to find out.

Frankly I think standing up for your RIGHTS, regardless of possible threat of prosecution, is well worth any possible risk you perceive there to be.

I came here to find an answer to a question. The OP's question actually. What I found was an argument being waged between fools... None of which who actually KNOW the answer, and only have personal opinions and anecdotal evidence.
It's like the deft leading the blind in here.

Additionally, some of you in here should be ashamed of yourselves. I can not believe the level of cowardice I've seen displayed by some of the individuals in this thread regarding the exercise of your rights.
Are you honestly so weak of will and of spirit that when the slightest possibility of legal questionability arises you simply surrender and say to yourself: "Oh I better not, I might get in trouble!"?
It's of my opinion that some of you are exactly that type, and you know who you are.
It's also of my opinion that individuals like yourselves are part of what has gone wrong with this country. There are too many cowards. Too many who won't take chances, or won't stand up for what they claim to believe in.

I digress however, and I do apologize for being as harsh as I have been. I can be very strongly spoken is all.

 

[Straightshooter]

You've never stood behind the defendants table in court have you? Play the game by your rules and the odds increase dramatically that you will at some point.

 

[swinokur]

Not to mention the possible loss of your rights to ever own a firearm again. That's not a game I'm willing to be dealt into.

 

[Pinecone]

An opinion, from the AG office is what the AG will go by, until they issue a different opinion.

So a holster with a strap should be fine.

The AG office also put out a letter (available here on MDS) that a loaded mag, not inserted in a firearm IS in accordance with the law.

But has been said, the stakes are pretty high, so do what YOU feel is prudent.

I always carry handguns in a range bag. And most times, in the range bag, they are in a zippered case.

 

[swinokur]

both opinions.
.

 

[sgt23preston]

I'm an old guy who goes the the ranges a lot...

Here's my advice...

I carry my hand guns or rifles in a range bag or rifle case, a holstered gun in the range bag is OK...

I choose NOT to carry loaded magazines, it just my makes like simpler...

I keep the magazines in my hand guns & make sure they are unloaded & that the hammer is down...

I carry my ammo in the original boxes & in the range bag or rifle cases...

I keep them all in the locked trunk of my car...

IF I was stopped by the police & asked about carrying guns, I would act surprised & ask him, "why would you ask me that question..?"

If pressed,I would respond that I am coming from or going to the gun range & have some guns in the trunk...

 

[HazyDayz]

Nothing in that part that has to do with permits. The part about permits is in another paragraph. The part I am talking is the part that says you can go to an informal target practice with an unloaded handgun in an enclosed case or enclosed holster. It says plainly "wear",

Range bag over the shoulder might constitute wear...

 

[TomisinMd]

I keep my guns in a range bag, and ammo in a locked steel tool box, along with mags. Never have gotten a straight answer out of MSP.

Frankly I think standing up for your RIGHTS, regardless of possible threat of prosecution, is well worth any possible risk you perceive there to be.

I came here to find an answer to a question. The OP's question actually. What I found was an argument being waged between fools... None of which who actually KNOW the answer, and only have personal opinions and anecdotal evidence.
It's like the deft leading the blind in here.

Additionally, some of you in here should be ashamed of yourselves. I can not believe the level of cowardice I've seen displayed by some of the individuals in this thread regarding the exercise of your rights.
Are you honestly so weak of will and of spirit that when the slightest possibility of legal questionability arises you simply surrender and say to yourself: "Oh I better not, I might get in trouble!"?
It's of my opinion that some of you are exactly that type, and you know who you are.
It's also of my opinion that individuals like yourselves are part of what has gone wrong with this country. There are too many cowards. Too many who won't take chances, or won't stand up for what they claim to believe in.

I digress however, and I do apologize for being as harsh as I have been. I can be very strongly spoken is all.

You have some issues to take care of, scooter. Trash everyone here, then apologize because you act like a jackass?
That's frikkin hilarious. "im sorry im an arshole, my mouth sometimes gets diarrhea".