Need some help with DC gun laws and gun laws in general!

[Heebs]

Hello!

I'm actually a DC resident and with the recent change in gun laws and our new president elect I figured it might be high time to get in while the going is still... possible?

So here are a series of questions I have had.
- Do you need to register a stripped pistol and/or rifle lower if you have no immediate intent on building a firearm? I primarily wanted to have the receiver so that way I get a hold of one before a possible ban comes and then build one later when I have more time to enjoy it.

- Can I purchase the lowers or have the lowers shipped to an FFL in MD and go and pick them up to avoid having them shipped to an FFL in DC?

- Is there an FFL in DC?

- What constitutes a stock? SBR's are illegal in DC.

- Anything else I need to know?

Thanks!

 

[Norton]

Howdy,

I'll let one of the other members of the brain trust address all of your questions, but I'll field the first one.

Receivers are the registered part of the firearm so there is no way around DC's restrictions by purchasing a stripped lower for an AR, for example. If you can not own an AR15 in DC, you can not own a stripped lower receiver in DC either.

 

[Heebs]

Thanks for the reply.

What prompted that question was that DC requires a ballistics test when you register a firearm. How can you do a ballistics test on a stripped lower?

 

[biermkr]

Move to Virginia

 

[novus collectus]

Hello!

I'm actually a DC resident and with the recent change in gun laws and our new president elect I figured it might be high time to get in while the going is still... possible?

Welcome, and yes.

So here are a series of questions I have had.
- Do you need to register a stripped pistol and/or rifle lower if you have no immediate intent on building a firearm? I primarily wanted to have the receiver so that way I get a hold of one before a possible ban comes and then build one later when I have more time to enjoy it.

For you as a DC resident, yes, but I do not think it is possible at the moment because they need to do a ballistics test.
I think there is some exception for unservicable firearms, but I am sure the Firearms Registration section will not let you do it because they cannot test it which is part of the registration.
The receiver or lower is the "firearm", so even a stripped lower has to be treated as a "firearm" for transfer purposes and most possession purposes.

- Can I purchase the lowers or have the lowers shipped to an FFL in MD and go and pick them up to avoid having them shipped to an FFL in DC?

Yes, no and no. YOu are allowed to buy a long gun in another state from an FFL, BUT you need a permit to purchase from the MPD Firearms Registration section first. Even if you bought it in DC from an FFL you would still need the permit to purchase. After you acquire the long gun you then go through the registration process as soon as you have it within DC (72 hours I think).

- Is there an FFL in DC?

Yes, but he only does transfers and I think in limited circumstances only.

- What constitutes a stock? SBR's are illegal in DC.

It is not the stock that makes it an SBR, it is the overall lenght and the barrel length. In DC the shortest barrel for a shotgun is 20" and for a rifle I think it is 16".

- Anything else I need to know?

Thanks!

The MPD will tell you there is an "assault weapons" ban in the city, but they are wrong as I read it. There is something about lawsuits being allowed because of so called AWs, but there is no prohibition that I am aware of.
There is a ten round mag limit though, so if you get a rifle, you might have to have a small one or one that is pinned.

I will look up the AW ban part so you can go in prepared. I will also ask the Firearms Registration section about this as well.

 

[Heebs]

So basically buying lowers is a no go for the District. I would need to purchase a full working firearm?

 

[novus collectus]

So basically buying lowers is a no go for the District. I would need to purchase a full working firearm?

It looks that way, but don't discount anything yet. There are a whole lot of new and different things about DC law and with the laws that still exist from 32 years ago were never put to the test they will be now.
I sent in a question to the Firearms Registrtion section and it may be a day or two before the sergeant responds. You would be surprised how I have stumped the MPD with some of the questions and you would be even more surprised at some of the positive responses I have gotten (like about antiques and such).

By the way, you should think about getting a C&R FFL. It only costs $30 for three years and you can buy C&R handguns or long guns in most states or have them shipped to your residence in DC (you will still have to submit them for registration within 72 hours upon receipt though). It is a great way to avoid transfer fees and the very first time you use it, it will more than pay for itself.

 

[Heebs]

It looks that way, but don't discount anything yet. There are a whole lot of new and different things about DC law and with the laws that still exist from 32 years ago were never put to the test they will be now.
I sent in a question to the Firearms Registrtion section and it may be a day or two before the sergeant responds. You would be surprised how I have stumped the MPD with some of the questions and you would be even more surprised at some of the positive responses I have gotten (like about antiques and such).

By the way, you should think about getting a C&R FFL. It only costs $30 for three years and you can buy C&R handguns or long guns in most states or have them shipped to your residence in DC (you will still have to submit them for registration within 72 hours upon receipt though). It is a great way to avoid transfer fees and the very first time you use it, it will more than pay for itself.

I really appreciate the help!

What is a C&R FFL and how do I get one?

 

[novus collectus]

I really appreciate the help!

What is a C&R FFL and how do I get one?

A C&R FFL is a Curio and Relic Federal Firearms License, also known as a type or class 03 FFL (dealers are 01).

There is more information here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/howtogetyourcurionrelicffl03/index.asp
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=931

It allows you to by certain firearms in other states and to recieve firearms from other states. It also allows for a few other things that a regular citizen cannot do.

It is easier to get a C&R FFL than it is to register a gun in DC. If you still have questions after reading the thread, then feel free to ask.

 

[Heebs]

A C&R FFL is a Curio and Relic Federal Firearms License, also known as a type or class 03 FFL (dealers are 01).

There is more information here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/howtogetyourcurionrelicffl03/index.asp
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=931

It allows you to by certain firearms in other states and to recieve firearms from other states. It also allows for a few other things that a regular citizen cannot do.

It is easier to get a C&R FFL than it is to register a gun in DC. If you still have questions after reading the thread, then feel free to ask.

So a C&R FFL basically allows me to ship guns to my house rather than going through an FFL as long as the guns being shipped to me are classified by the ATF as "curios and relics" and I would still need to take said firearms down to be registered by the DC MPD within 72 hours of receipt?

Edit: Does DC even allow you to have a C&R license?

 

[capTIM]

Edit: Does DC even allow you to have a C&R license?

I don't think DC has a say in that as it is issued by the ATF. They can restrict your guns(at least the ones they know about), but they can't restrict you from obtaining a Federal license.

 

[novus collectus]

So a C&R FFL basically allows me to ship guns to my house rather than going through an FFL as long as the guns being shipped to me are classified by the ATF as "curios and relics" and I would still need to take said firearms down to be registered by the DC MPD within 72 hours of receipt?

Yes.

Edit: Does DC even allow you to have a C&R license?

It is not really up to DC.
I asked MPD about the C&R situation above specifically by the way.

 

[novus collectus]

I don't think DC has a say in that as it is issued by the ATF. They can restrict your guns(at least the ones they know about), but they can't restrict you from obtaining a Federal license.

Fed law says you cannot get a license if you cannot "conduct business" legally at that location. But since there are a number of activities one can do with a C&R in almost every location, including DC, it is generally a provision that applies to dealer, importer and manufacturer FFLs and not collectors.

 

[Heebs]

So in order to purchase a firearm from an FFL in another state I need to get a Firearm Application form from DC. Bring it to the dealer, buy the firearm, and then bring both the application and firearm back to the MPD to register it or is there something else? This is what I read from the DC.gov website.

 

[novus collectus]

So in order to purchase a firearm from an FFL in another state I need to get a Firearm Application form from DC. Bring it to the dealer, buy the firearm, and then bring both the application and firearm back to the MPD to register it or is there something else? This is what I read from the DC.gov website.

This is not totally correct. YOu need a registration certificate approved first before taking possession from a dealer.

An application for a registration certificate must be filed and a certificate issued before
taking possession of any firearm from a licensed dealer.
In all other cases an application for registration shall be filed immediately after a
firearm is brought into the District. It shall be deemed compliance with the preceding
sentence if such person personally communicates with the Metropolitan Police
Department, Gun Registration Section on 202-727-4275, and provides such information
as may be required provided that such person files an application for a registration
certificate within 48 hours after such communication.

But their pamphlet contradicts itself saying you do not need one to purchase from a dealer, just the application, but the pahmphlet is not the last word and I am sure they will tell you to get the certificate first for at least buying in the District. You will have to call them or go there and ask about when buying in another state and if the certificate is needed first. Speak to Sergeant Hall.

By the way, I receieved a response to most of my questions.

First, my questions:

One, they want to buy an AR-15 "Lower" (receiver) that is "stripped" (devoid of any parts) and wants to klnow if it can be registered in it's un-assembled condition or if it even has to be registered at that point.
I understand you cannot do a ballistics test so you cannot register it at this point, but is there an exception in District code for non-functioning or unservicable firearms? (the parts would not be possessed so I guess technically one could argue it is "unserviceable").

Two, you mentioned a while back the District has a ban on "assault Weapons", but I have not been able to find a prohibition and the only item I can see is the part about civil liability.

Three, if the resident were to buy an assembled and complete long gun (not neccessarily an AR-15) in another state from an FFL, am I correct in thinking it is legal as long as the DC resident gets a permit to purchase for the long gun from the Firearms Registration section first?


Four, is a collapsible stock allowed on a long gun so long as the overall lenght with the stock extended is 26"?


Five, for the prohibition on magazines holding greater than ten rounds, what about magazines originally designed to hold more than ten rounds but are permanently modified by being "pinned" with a pop rivel or a weld to only hold ten rounds? Are they legal if altered to limit the capacity to ten rounds?

THe reply:

1. We cannot register parts of firearms, i.e. just the receiver. It must meet the definition of a firearm in order to be registered.
2. There is no assault weapons ban. That has been cleared up since new legislation was passed allowing semi-automatic firearms.
3. Yes, you can purchase an AR-15 type of weapon, it must first be approved however in order to purchase it. If you own it in you would bring the weapon in for registration and to be inspected, unloaded and in a carrying case just like other weapons.
4.We are registering weapons with collapsible stocks as long as it has an overall length of 26" once it is collapsed.
5. I need to double check on that question and get back to you.

So you cannot register just the reciever.
You can own an AR15 or an AK47.
Apparently the collapsible stock can only be used if it is still 26" overall once collapsed which is opposite of the federal law.
Pinned magazines is still questionable.

If they allow permanently pinned to ten round magazines, then it would make buying magazines much cheaper because I would think or guess 20 and 30 rounders are probably cheaper than specialized ten rounders for certain guns.


A little interesting note. You cannot make a firearm in DC, but you can make a firearm in VA or MD. If you make your own AK or AR (reciever and then assembled) then brought it to DC to register, that is apparently legal. It would not violate federal law as I read it.

 

[K-Romulus]

makes me almost, ALMOST, consider moving into DC (but still, the only way that could happen is in a parallel universe)

 

[novus collectus]

makes me almost, ALMOST, consider moving into DC (but still, the only way that could happen is in a parallel universe)

Ironically in DC they can buy and own these:

# AA Arms AP-9 semi-automatics
# Bushmaster semi-automatic pistol;
# Claridge HI-TEC, semi-automatic pistol;
# D Max Industries semi-automatic pistol;
# Encom MK-IV, MP-9, MP-45 semi-automatic pistols;
# Heckler and Koch semi-automatic pistol SP-89;
# Holmes MP-83 semi-automatic pistol;
# Ingram MAC 10/11 semi-automatic pistol and any variation including the Partisan Avenger and the SWD Cobray;
# Intratec TEC-9/DC-9 in any centerfire variation;
# P.A.W.S. type semi-automatic pistol;
# Skorpion semi-automatic pistol;
# Spectre double action semi-automatic pistol (Sile, F.I.E., Mitchell);
# UZI semi-automatic pistol;
# Weaver Arms semi-automatic Nighthawk pistol; and
# Wilkinson semi-automatic "Linda" pistol.

It is sad when they can own handguns in DC that is extremely illegal to own in MD.

 

[Heebs]

So if the receiver doesn't qualify as a firearm then do you need to register it?

I mean if I bought a receiver in VA or MD and brought it into the district would that be legal as long as I didn't assemble it in DC?

But I can assemble the receiver in another state and bring it into DC and thats fine?

DC must be so confused as to what their own laws really mean with the recent legal action that has turned half their laws on their heads...

Edit:
If you say bought a new barrel for an already registered (and thus ballistic tested) firearm, would you need to go back and get another ballistics test?

 

[novus collectus]

So if the receiver doesn't qualify as a firearm then do you need to register it?

The reciever does qualify as a firearm, but not a firearm that can be registered as is apparently.

I mean if I bought a receiver in VA or MD and brought it into the district would that be legal as long as I didn't assemble it in DC?

No because you cannot register just the reciever without the ballistics test, nor without it being able to meet the overall length requirement apparently.

But I can assemble the receiver in another state and bring it into DC and thats fine?

Only if you owned the reciever legally which means as a DC resident you could not buy it legally without DC permission, but if you owned it as another state resident before moving to DC, then you could. Also, if you "made" the reciever yourself in another state, then you could.
It is legal to "make" (fabricate, manufacture, etc.) your own reciever outside of the District too, but to buy or have transferred to you a machine finished (stripped or not) reciever, you need to follow the entire process.

DC must be so confused as to what their own laws really mean with the recent legal action that has turned half their laws on their heads...

Yes!

Edit:
If you say bought a new barrel for an already registered (and thus ballistic tested) firearm, would you need to go back and get another ballistics test?

Good question and I have a feeling I know the answer you may get from the MPD, but I have a feeling the DC code says you do not have to because you have already fufilled the registration requirements of the word of the law.

One of the questions I wanted to ask the MPD is if a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle that has more than one barrel/chamber and fires more than one cartridge/caliber, or that only fires shotgun shot, then do they have to register it for each and how will they do a ballistic test on a shotshell?

 

[Heebs]

Does DC have any laws regarding reloading your own brass?

Apologies for throwing all these questions your way Novus, I'm out of country right now so this is a big help for me.