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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #1
Drew1340
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AK 47 And Ammo

Had another day at the range this morning, As I am trying to work through some issues with My AK collection....
I am wondering What the general thoughts and our AK experts think of this....
My CAI cheapo AK holds very tight groups but to the right due to the front sight being canted that is an issue that will be handled soon enough....
My Saiga from arsenal seems to shoot well and reliably but it isnt as solid with the grouping that the CAI has.... Some of this could be my proficiency with an AK I will not lie I like my ARs better, but the AK is a solid and useful tool... I am just wondering if the tulammo, silver bear, and wolf ammo is part of the issue or if it is a gun issue or if I just shoot the cheap CAI better than its nicer more expensive Saiga Counter part....
Any thoughts?
thanks
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Old February 26th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #2
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My experience with AKs and accuracy is that it depends largely on the individual rifle paired with a particular brand of ammo. Certain guns print better with certain ammo, though some AK builds seem generally more accurate overall.

I am not surprised your WASR is more accurate than a Saiga, but is it that way with all ammo?
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #3
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the ak was designed to shoot steel cased ammo.
if you are having issues, try some yugo brass cased ammo, but bear in mind it is corrosive.


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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Drew1340 View Post
I am just wondering if the tulammo, silver bear, and wolf ammo is part of the issue or if it is a gun issue or if I just shoot the cheap CAI better than its nicer more expensive Saiga Counter part....
How does your AR do with tula, silver bear, and wolf?
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Old February 26th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #5
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in all honesty I dont run steel case, or silver bear in my ARs... So I dont know...
I guess I just need to play more with it for trigger time, but it is petty unsatisfying that the more expensive and what should be a solid AK isn't all it is cracked up to be....
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Old February 26th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #6
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Try it with the same quality ammo as you'd use in the AR and see what happens.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #7
Drew1340
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Seems like a reasonable idea... I guess I am just discouraged because it seems my luck with the AK 47 platform has not been as good as others.... but it is what it is...
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Old February 26th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #8
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Shoot mostly Tulsa ammo thru my Centery Arms AK for cost.
Other brands do'nt seem to effect accuracy much.
Granted it's not like shooting my AR, but more a rifle meant to be shot with iron sights at iron sight range. I concider my AK a good 100-150 yard weapon with open sights.
Some rifles like certain brands of ammo better then others.
Just don't expect your AK to shoot like a AR
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Old February 26th, 2012, 08:16 PM   #9
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My Saiga rifle loves Golden Tiger ammo and shoots Tulammo low left about 6" at 50 yards. It seems to prefer the lacquer coated ammo versus the plain steel cased.


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Old February 26th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #10
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I dont expect an AK to hold the accuracy of my AR but I would like to see it look a touch more like a rifle group then a shot gun blast... and again it could be me just not having enough trigger time... but just makes me wonder why I can get a nice tight group with a CAI AK and not the Saiga....I guess it will just come down to more trigger time when I have a few more bugs worked out...
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Old February 27th, 2012, 03:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1340 View Post
Had another day at the range this morning, As I am trying to work through some issues with My AK collection....
I am wondering What the general thoughts and our AK experts think of this....
My CAI cheapo AK holds very tight groups but to the right due to the front sight being canted that is an issue that will be handled soon enough....
My Saiga from arsenal seems to shoot well and reliably but it isnt as solid with the grouping that the CAI has.... Some of this could be my proficiency with an AK I will not lie I like my ARs better, but the AK is a solid and useful tool... I am just wondering if the tulammo, silver bear, and wolf ammo is part of the issue or if it is a gun issue or if I just shoot the cheap CAI better than its nicer more expensive Saiga Counter part....
Any thoughts?
thanks
What ammo do you shoot from your wasr? What ammo do you shoot from your saiga?
If the Wasr is shooting accurately keep using that ammo. If the saiga is grouping poorly but using same ammo as your are using in the wasr then it is an ammo issue and you need to use something else.

Personally to me I don't even notice the differences with ammo they all seem to shoot the same to me. Then again the AK is a combat rifle not a precision bench-rest gun.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 08:53 AM   #12
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Old February 27th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #13
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I have a f**k-tonne of brass-cased Yugo. It seems to shoot very consistant groups. I've still got a little Egyptian surplus (also brass-cased) that isn't quite as accurate. I've never shot any of the steel-cased stuff in my AK47s, though I do use steel-cased Russian surplus in the AK74s; and it seems VERY accurate. About as accurate as my Sig556, or MSAR. A good bench shooter with a high power scope might notice a difference; but myself useing red dots, not so much.


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Old February 27th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #14
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odds are it has more to do with the ammo. keep in mind that the WASR barrel is not chrome lined where as the saiga/SGL is, that alone plays a big factor. dont just try different brands of ammo either, try different bullet weights, bullet styles, ect.

for example, my SGL-21 seems to shoot 2 MOA with silver bear 123 gr HPs, but with the 123 gr FMJs its closer to 3.5-4 MOA...however with fiocchi 123 gr FMJs the point of impact shifts 4" right and 1 " high at 50 yards, but the groups seem on par (1" groups @ 50 yards) with the silver bear HPs...its amazing the difference that every little factor makes.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #15
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odds are it has more to do with the ammo. keep in mind that the WASR barrel is not chrome lined where as the saiga/SGL is, that alone plays a big factor. dont just try different brands of ammo either, try different bullet weights, bullet styles, ect.

for example, my SGL-21 seems to shoot 2 MOA with silver bear 123 gr HPs, but with the 123 gr FMJs its closer to 3.5-4 MOA...however with fiocchi 123 gr FMJs the point of impact shifts 4" right and 1 " high at 50 yards, but the groups seem on par (1" groups @ 50 yards) with the silver bear HPs...its amazing the difference that every little factor makes.
You might want to double check your data. IIRC, the imported WASR-10s have chrome-lined hammer forged barrels.


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Old February 27th, 2012, 07:56 PM   #16
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Nemesis that doesn't seem a little odd with that much shift in p o i with different ammo? In general I usually would say shooter is off not gun or ammo, but I haven't had much luck with AKs in my experience... But I feel like I am not getting very good groups from my saigas.... I will give it a run with a few different types and weights of ammo....
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Old February 27th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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Nemesis that doesn't seem a little odd with that much shift in p o i with different ammo? In general I usually would say shooter is off not gun or ammo, but I haven't had much luck with AKs in my experience... But I feel like I am not getting very good groups from my saigas.... I will give it a run with a few different types and weights of ammo....
One of my ARs does this with different bullet weights and different powders in the same bullet! It's all about harmonics, especially with skinny barreled rifles.


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Old February 28th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #18
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The slightest change makes a huge diff when it comes to throwing lead down range. Another factor is what the bullet is made of....silver bear us bimetal jacketed, meaning its a soft steel jacket that is copper coated rather that the full copper jacket of the fiocchi
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #19
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Makes sense, I would say my AKs are the only guns that I actually vary ammo types with so maybe I just need to see which works and stick with it...
My ARs and hand guns and shot guns and other rifles are all fed the same healthy diet that works....
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Old February 29th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #20
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Yea thats what you have to do...just find what she likes and go with that...try golden tiger, silver bear, wolf, and golden bear soft points....fmj and hp of each of the others...you will be amazed at how differently each prints.
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