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Old February 23rd, 2012, 03:53 AM   #561
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Very well written. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Klunatic View Post
Just sent and email to Vallario,


Honorable Chairman,

I am writing to thank you for your thoughtful attention to the House bills presented to your committee on 2/21/2012. Now that you have heard testimony from both sides I am urging you allow the democratic process to play out as our founding fathers intended. Bring House bills HB45, HB430, HB488 and HB1135 up for a vote in the committee and allow a vote up or down. I also ask you to vote for a favorable report on these bills.

Maryland is now in a distinct minority. 41 states in the Union are “Shall issue” and Maryland is at best a “May issue” but more like “No Issue” for most people. Maryland does not allow due process to its citizens regarding the conceal carry permit process. It assumes we are guilty of a crime and therefore we should be denied our fundamental 2nd Amendment rights. We have to prove we are worthy of permit, whereas 41 other states assume we are entitled to a conceal carry permit and the state has the burden to prove otherwise. HB45 and HB430 specifically address this 2 class system of discrimination and the arbitrary and capricious nature of Maryland permit process.


Again I thank you for your time an attention and look forward to your support on the above bills.

Sincerely,


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 06:24 AM   #562
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
Unknown. It's all up to Vallario at this point. Our next step in this process is to urge the good chairman to give our bills an up/down vote in his committee.
Wasn't smiegel trying to do some kind of petition in years past to force it to the floor? IIRC, he ran out of time before the session ended.


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:17 AM   #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skins_Brew View Post
Wasn't smiegel trying to do some kind of petition in years past to force it to the floor? IIRC, he ran out of time before the session ended.
That was last year. Smigiel's reciprocity bill had the votes to get out of the HJC, but Vallario wouldn't bring it up for a vote. The measure Smigiel was trying to invoke requires some political capital and generally pisses off the chairman of the particular committee and the House Speaker as you are "circumventing the process." Keep in mind, the righteous indignation held by leadership is irrelevant if the issue at hand is one that leadership wants to see advance.

Politics as usual.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:23 AM   #564
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Senate thread here - http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=76820


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well, this degenerated from unnecessary to downright bizarre in a hurry.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:53 AM   #565
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Just sent a email to Vallerio myself. Can't hurt if everyone does this. If nothing else he may put it through to get people off his back about it.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 08:51 AM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
That was last year. Smigiel's reciprocity bill had the votes to get out of the HJC, but Vallario wouldn't bring it up for a vote. The measure Smigiel was trying to invoke requires some political capital and generally pisses off the chairman of the particular committee and the House Speaker as you are "circumventing the process." Keep in mind, the righteous indignation held by leadership is irrelevant if the issue at hand is one that leadership wants to see advance.

Politics as usual.
It's called a Discharge Petition.

Very expensive politically to do; very rare to succeed, but we have FOPA because of a US House discharge petition lead by the NRA.


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 08:54 AM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
In theory it's a decent enough system, allowing for truly pointless bills to die in committee without wasting the entire House/Senate's time on the matter should the bill have managed to come out of committee in the first place, but the power of the desk drawer veto has become politicized, something that was not originally intended. Instead of being used as a way to streamline the political process, it's just another way for a politico to wield power.

However, those are the cards we've been dealt, so we've got to play them.
I get the theory behind wanting to streamline things, but there should be some kind of exemption for bills that have passed the other chamber. If the House passes a bill the appropriate Senate committee should be required to vote on it. If it doesn't pass the other chamber, fine, desk drawer veto it, but if the other chamber thought enough of it to get it out of committee and pass it themselves, the committee should be required to at least vote on it.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:02 AM   #568
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That's way too much power for one person to have, especially in Maryland


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:06 AM   #569
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Quote:
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That's way too much power for one person to have, especially in Maryland
Agreed:thu mbsup:

I really don't see how this is allowed. Everything should be voted on.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:21 AM   #570
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Agreed:thu mbsup:

I really don't see how this is allowed. Everything should be voted on.
Are you willing to pay more taxes for, say, a 6-8 month session?

If every bill was voted on, they would have to double the length of the session just to allow time for the votes.

This no-vote thing works both ways, we need to remember.

I did some research this week for something down in the bowels of the legislative services building and was surprised at how many of the bills that we are fighting today were being proposed 30-40 years ago.

Guess what? They didn't get votes then either.

Be careful what you wish for. While we don't like it when Vallario puts things in the drawer, there have been even more cases where bills we opposed were shut down without a vote and had they been allowed to go to the floor would have been imposed.


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:31 AM   #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
Are you willing to pay more taxes for, say, a 6-8 month session?

If every bill was voted on, they would have to double the length of the session just to allow time for the votes.

This no-vote thing works both ways, we need to remember.

I did some research this week for something down in the bowels of the legislative services building and was surprised at how many of the bills that we are fighting today were being proposed 30-40 years ago.

Guess what? They didn't get votes then either.

Be careful what you wish for. While we don't like it when Vallario puts things in the drawer, there have been even more cases where bills we opposed were shut down without a vote and had they been allowed to go to the floor would have been imposed.
OK I guess I see your point But in this case where there were at least 30 people there in support of these bills and the only one to oppose was the MSP and he could not even say why they opposed. I think that makes it worthy of a vote. If no one showed I could see throwing it out.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:03 AM   #572
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OK I guess I see your point But in this case where there were at least 30 people there in support of these bills and the only one to oppose was the MSP and he could not even say why they opposed. I think that makes it worthy of a vote. If no one showed I could see throwing it out.
I hate to say it, but as gun owners we're the ultra-lightweights when it comes to turning out numbers.

We suck compared to the unions, ,motorcyclists, mentally and physically disabled people, child advocates, animal lovers and pot heads.

All of them turn out people exponentially larger than we go and fail to see their bills advance.

We do as well as we do because the people that do come out are well-prepared and have their facts straight.

Pressure is important and we've seen it work in the case of civil immunity particularly, but we're still the runt of the litter when it comes to pure numbers.


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 11:58 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by gprimr1 View Post
It's called a Discharge Petition.

Very expensive politically to do; very rare to succeed, but we have FOPA because of a US House discharge petition lead by the NRA.
What do you mean, "Expensive?" This seems like the best bet, especially when Norton just said that this has desk drawer BS has been going on for 40 years. Don't you just need to get enough delegates to sign?


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 12:04 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by Skins_Brew View Post
What do you mean, "Expensive?" This seems like the best bet, especially when Norton just said that this has desk drawer BS has been going on for 40 years. Don't you just need to get enough delegates to sign?
It burns a lot of political capitol and forces people to attatch themselves to issues.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 12:09 PM   #575
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Well Frosh has opened the fun and games even though we are a small part today.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 12:11 PM   #576
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Please post everything on today's (February 23) proceedings here: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=76820
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 12:13 PM   #577
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I've closed this one until weget through today's Senate hearings. After that we can re-open this one for follow up discussions of the House activities.


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