21st Gun Bill Day thread

[Inigoes]

Originally Posted by hvymax

Take a written test and maybe even a proficiency test just like we all do at the MVA.

What !?!?

There already is a test to purchase a regulated firearm!

[gprimr1]

Originally Posted by hvymax

Something on another thread got me thinking. Maybe we need to repackage our argument. We could make it all sound as normal as a drivers license. In 40+ whatever states it is. Why can't we come in prove who we are. Pass a background check. Take a written test and maybe even a proficiency test just like we all do at the MVA. It is a perfectly normal thing for over 80% of Americans so what makes Marylanders less deserving?

We aren't really opposing a training requirement to my knowledge.

[hvymax]

Originally Posted by gprimr1

We aren't really opposing a training requirement to my knowledge.

But we still look like nutcakes to most Marylanders. If we can show that this is perfectly normal for most Americans and that there is no reason for it to be any more or less complicated than something we all do then we can become normal here as well.
We need to show that Maryland is the anomoly and make them wonder why.

[EL1227]

Originally Posted by gprimr1

We aren't really opposing a training requirement to my knowledge.

I think that we need to help them 'craft' the training requirements, else they'll use their typical NIH approach that will require multiple hurdles and exorbitant fees like NY.

Strongly suggest that they look NOT to their progressive brethern from NY and CA for guidance, but to the 40+ states who already do this, UT and FL being the best examples. Even better, license our Industry Partners Firearms Training to offer a MD-specific CCW course, then get out of the way.

I can just hear the gears turning in Frosh and Owe'Malley's heads when they finally get backed into a corner on this. When the inevitable happens ... how can they make money from it.

[thedaego]

Originally Posted by hvymax

But we still look like nutcakes to most Marylanders. If we can show that this is perfectly normal for most Americans and that there is no reason for it to be any more or less complicated than something we all do then we can become normal here as well.
We need to show that Maryland is the anomoly and make them wonder why.

This is too true. The opinion that concealed carry should even be considered as a topic for intelligent discussion incites immediate dismissal from friends, family and co-workers here in Maryland. It's generally not until facts and statistics are cited (the "Shall-Issue" map on MSI is a particularly good reference) that people are even open to a dialogue.

Even then, most people are too brainwashed to even consider the idea and their mindset degenerates to something akin to "well, the rest of America is just crazy. What you're talking about is a perfect example of what's wrong with this country". <--- Those are the minds that are difficult, if not impossible to win over without them coming to logical conclusion themselves or being spoon-fed the idea by a popular or prominent leftist talking head. (As if that would ever happen).

[EL1227]

Originally Posted by hvymax

But we still look like nutcakes to most Marylanders. If we can show that this is perfectly normal for most Americans and that there is no reason for it to be any more or less complicated than something we all do then we can become normal here as well.
We need to show that Maryland is the anomoly and make them wonder why.

I think that came out in the hearing yesterday. Del. Kelly made that point quite clearly to the MSP reps.

Perfectly normal would be like UT or FL as I mentioned above and Ken Brown illustrated that when he told the committee that UT was doing 8,000 out-of-state permits/month ... with MANY going to MD residents.

[Boxcab]

Originally Posted by hvymax

Something on another thread got me thinking. Maybe we need to repackage our argument. We could make it all sound as normal as a drivers license. In 40+ whatever states it is. Why can't we come in prove who we are. Pass a background check. Take a written test and maybe even a proficiency test just like we all do at the MVA. It is a perfectly normal thing for over 80% of Americans so what makes Marylanders less deserving?

We all know how well that works... there are no car wrecks, accidents, or stupid things done with a Drivers Licence.

It was too bad the training was brought up yesterday, it was not a consideration until our side made it an issue. It will probably never go away now.

[hvymax]

Originally Posted by thedaego

This is too true. The opinion that concealed carry should even be considered as a topic for intelligent discussion incites immediate dismissal from friends, family and co-workers here in Maryland. It's generally not until facts and statistics are cited (the "Shall-Issue" map on MSI is a particularly good reference) that people are even open to a dialogue.

Even then, most people are too brainwashed to even consider the idea and their mindset degenerates to something akin to "well, the rest of America is just crazy. What you're talking about is a perfect example of what's wrong with this country". <--- Those are the minds that are difficult, if not impossible to win over without them coming to logical conclusion themselves or being spoon-fed the idea by a popular or prominent leftist talking head. (As if that would ever happen).

Exactly.First you provide ID and your records are checked. You take drivers ed/you take a firearms class. You pass a written/computer test then you pass a proficiency test and Viola. We could even make the argument that a car is way more dangerous than a LCP and show traffic deaths compared to CCW accident statistics. They would look insane to deny us instead of the other way around.

[Inigoes]

Originally Posted by hvymax

Exactly.First you provide ID and your records are checked. You take drivers ed/you take a firearms class. You pass a written/computer test then you pass a proficiency test and Viola. We could even make the argument that a car is way more dangerous than a LCP and show traffic deaths compared to CCW accident statistics. They would look insane to deny us instead of the other way around.

F that!

You are not helping with that kind of logic.

When ever do you have to take a test to speak in public?

[ffemtreed]

Originally Posted by Boxcab

We all know how well that works... there are no car wrecks, accidents, or stupid things done with a Drivers Licence.

It was too bad the training was brought up yesterday, it was not a consideration until our side made it an issue. It will probably never go away now.

actually HB 1135 brought up the training issue.

[hvymax]

Originally Posted by Inigoes

F that!

You are not helping with that kind of logic.

When ever do you have to take a test to speak in public?

Well how well has screaming the Second Ammendment is my carry permit working. My idea is to make the argument that there is no logical reason that this should be ANY MORE COMPLICATED than getting a drivers license. Everybody does it no big deal no reason for crazy restrictions. We drive to the mall why should'nt we carry there? As long as we come off as fringe nutcakes we will be treated like them.

[Elliotte]

Many thanks to everyone who attended yesterday and to those who gave a running play by play for those of us who couldn't make it or couldn't watch the feed.

[Inigoes]

Originally Posted by hvymax

Well how well has screaming the Second Ammendment is my carry permit working. My idea is to make the argument that there is no logical reason that this should be ANY MORE COMPLICATED than getting a drivers license. Everybody does it no big deal no reason for crazy restrictions. We drive to the mall why should'nt we carry there? As long as we come off as fringe nutcakes we will be treated like them.

How well does the MSP follow existing law?

COMAR 29.03.01.04

When Woollard is won, the screaming will have succeeded

[Boxcab]

Originally Posted by ffemtreed

actually HB 1135 brought up the training issue.

Yep, our (pro shall issue) Delegates did that to us. This is why they need to run these things by MSI prior to submitting. We had three bills yesterday asking for the same basic thing, it caused confusion and destroyed plans of attack when Vallero lumped them all together.

[haoleboy]

Before ANYONE thinks we should be rubbing elbows with Del. Tiffany Alston and getting her on our side you should be reading this. It was already brought up earlier in this thread and it seems everyone ignored it.
Having someone like her on our side flushes our credibility down the toilet. We might as well bring on Jack Johnson and Marion Berry while we are at it.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/stor...storyid=179821

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/09...ges-66980.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...rwO_story.html

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/1...nd-indictment/

http://maryland-politics.blogspot.co...-indicted.html

The Trial starts in May. At least wait to see IF she is cleared on ALL charges before you friend her on FB.

[pwoolford]

I watched as much as I could yesterday (with the buffering) and I was curious why nobody brought up the fact that the MSP already does all the required checks when someone purchases a handgun today. The point was MSP is already doing it now. Yes they may need additional staffing to handle the permits if they move to shall issue but I'm sure that would be offset by the additional fees from the carry permits.

[Boondock Saint]

Originally Posted by Boxcab

Yep, our (pro shall issue) Delegates did that to us. This is why they need to run these things by MSI prior to submitting. We had three bills yesterday asking for the same basic thing, it caused confusion and destroyed plans of attack when Vallero lumped them all together.

Political posturing and lack of communication at its finest. A cluster of carry bills coming from all different directions from our friends in Annapolis, none of whom consulted the acknowledged experts on the matter, or even sought to collaborate with their legislative peers. Instead, they want to be out in front as much as possible, having some red meat to toss to constituents around election time. It looks great to the casual observer, but it's a hot mess when you look a bit deeper.

It is of course no matter to them that their efforts, while well intentioned, are counterproductive to the overall goal. Media exposure, campaign contributions, votes. That's what matters to all politicians.

[ffemtreed]

Originally Posted by pwoolford

I watched as much as I could yesterday (with the buffering) and I was curious why nobody brought up the fact that the MSP already does all the required checks when someone purchases a handgun today. The point was MSP is already doing it now. Yes they may need additional staffing to handle the permits if they move to shall issue but I'm sure that would be offset by the additional fees from the carry permits.

That was a stance I took when writing some of my support letters. There are already laws that define who can and can't own/possess a firearm. Even if a bad guy somehow slips through the permit process cracks and ends up with a permit it does them no good since they can't possess a firearm anyway, and if they chose to break that federal law then the lack of a CCW permit isn't going to stop them anyways.

[montoya32]

Originally Posted by haoleboy

Before ANYONE thinks we should be rubbing elbows with Del. Tiffany Alston and getting her on our side you should be reading this. It was already brought up earlier in this thread and it seems everyone ignored it.
Having someone like her on our side flushes our credibility down the toilet. We might as well bring on Jack Johnson and Marion Berry while we are at it.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/stor...storyid=179821

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/09...ges-66980.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...rwO_story.html

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/1...nd-indictment/

http://maryland-politics.blogspot.co...-indicted.html

The Trial starts in May. At least wait to see IF she is cleared on ALL charges before you friend her on FB.

It's not about her being an advocate for us, just supporting the bill. If she is not supporting it, she is against it. That goes for any delegate. She still hold a position and has influence, so to not get her "on our side" would be a mistake. We need all the support/votes we can get.

[rambling_one]

Originally Posted by edleary1227

I’ll leave other tidbits to my fellow ‘boarders’ to post.

I suited up with the sandwich board and by 8am was walking my “beat,” on Bladen Street, around the State Building and along West street.

My first encounter was with a casually dressed gent who obviously had a place to go, but took the time to ask what MSI was about, accepted a flyer, and told me to “keep up the good work.”

The second fellow was manning the parking garage window and stepped out onto the sidewalk to ask about MSI. Though wearing a Vietnam veteran hat, he was noncommittal on the issue. When I mentioned protecting one’s wife, for example, he seemed to retreat inside himself, as though perhaps he didn’t have a spouse or had lost her.

Several cars honked their horns along the way and on the long stretch of Bladen Street headed out of the city; i.e., walking against incoming traffic, one young lady rolled down her winder and gave me a thumb’s up. Another, walking toward me, read the sign and said “I’m with you guys.”

Back in town a man and woman headed into one of the government buildings stopped to chat. She remained quiet, but the man was obviously not adverse to our message, but told me that with Maryland politics being what it is, he didn’t think we’d succeed. I told him we get no where if we give up.

With that I met up with Boxcab and headed for a coffee break.

My most productive encounter was with a middle aged black woman who spent at least twenty minutes asking all sorts of questions and very receptive to my answers. She spoke of her late grandmother who lived in Baltimore and carried a small hand gun in her purse because she was afraid to walk from her house to the trolley. I told her it was MSI’s mission to ensure folks like her grandmother won’t have to break the law to be safe. Her eyes glistened.

She asked who were the worst on gun issues – Democrats or Republicans. I told her that statistically it was the former, but pointed out that there are some pro-gun democrats and that one, Dan Riley, actually proposed a CCW bill. She winced a little when I told her Dan had lost his reelection bid.

She couldn’t believe that until last year a homeowner exonerated of justifiably killing an intruder could be sued in civil court, perhaps ending up losing the family’s savings including the house that was defended. She asked who did that - Democrat or Republican – and I gave her Frosh’s name. Her response…”That ain’t right.”

I told her that we need more minorities to join MSI…more seniors…more women. She asked for a brochure and seemed glad that I also offered her my e-mail address.

We discussed at some length the need to get the black community involved. That MLK was denied a handgun permit in Alabama. That many in the black community are fearful to publicize their ownership of firearms. That in PG County, for example, it may be reminiscent of their distrust in the police.

On the last leg of my journey a gent named Leroy managed to catch up with me…he said every time he got close, the crossing lights wouldn’t cooperate. Turns out he is Paul’s dad (I told him I wouldn’t hold that against him). We managed to meet up with Paul and several others for lunch at the Ram’s Head Tavern. Nice end to a productive day.