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Old November 23rd, 2011, 06:45 AM   #1
NateTheShake
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Ultimate Home Defense load: Fed LE132-1B

Federal is working on a new home/self defense load based on past testing of buckshot terminal performance. The new load, LE132-1B, will utilize 15 #1 buck pellets (.30 caliber) in the Flite Control wad in a reduced recoil cartridge.

Why this over all others?

According to testing done by the IWBA (via Firearms Tactical):

Quote:
Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
Alas, until now, not many companies have offered loads using #1 buck and the few loads out there did not offer the additional features (plated shot, pattern control wads, etc) that they did with most 00 and 000.

So how does it perform?

Pretty damn good:

Quote:
This looks to be a GREAT load. Here is a repost of some testing from another forum I frequent:......

Based on IWBA data, Don Hacklander from San Diego Police Supply and I have been discussing the potential of a properly designed #1 buckshot LE load for many years--with Don's help and the efforts of some folks at ATK, this has now finally been brought to fruition!

We shot the new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) yesterday out of a generic 18" 870P, including patterning from 5-35 yards, as well as a bare gel shot at 7 yards. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrated in the 14-18 inch range.

This new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

Below are a couple photos of patterning shots at 7 and 25 yards:




Quote:
We did some additional testing with the new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load. The load chronographed with a MV of 1095 fps from an 18" 870.

Through an automobile windshield at 3 meters, 2 badly deformed pellets were noted at 5", 3 pellets were at 8-9", while the remaining 10 pellets were found at 12.5-15"--not bad for buckshot load. Keep in mind that slugs are the preferred option when engaging threats inside vehicles.

In bare gel when shot from 3 meters, we again saw penetration of all the pellets from 14-18", as noted in the photo below:




From what I can tell the load hasn't hit shelves yet, but when it does I plan to pick up a good amount and test it for pattern and function. This might become the number one defensive shot load on the market.


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 08:01 AM   #2
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It'll be interesting to see how this performs in multiple tests. But from the looks of it, it could bump the 00 buck as the best defensive load.


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 08:05 AM   #3
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No drywall testing?


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 08:33 AM   #4
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No drywall testing?
I have no doubt that will come along with time. Again, this load hasn't hit the market yet.

I sent an email to Old Painless of Box of Truth to see if he'd be interested in putting this through the ringer. I offered to send a few boxes if I can get my hands on them.


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 08:36 AM   #5
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I'll stick with slugs TYVM.
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 08:42 AM   #6
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#1 Buck is probably the most effective buckshot size there is (JMHO), and this is LONG overdue. I haven't been able to find it in quite a while and I'm down to less than 25.

#000, #00 and #0 are all a bit big in a 12 gauge, reducing pellet count and pattern density to marginal levels with the biggest pellets. New developments in buffering materials and wad technology has helped a lot, but it's not where it should be.

Everyone is captivated by the huge (#000~.36" & #00 ~ .33") pellets in the bigger sizes, but frequently overlook the fact that they spread out pretty rapidly and you can probably drive a truck between the pellets at longer distances.

If you want a dense swarm of decent size pellets, a good load of #1 Buck is just the ticket.

LOL at the "drywall testing". If it won't effortlessly go through a couple walls, it's obviously not powerful enough for dependable defensive use.


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 09:00 AM   #7
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LOL at the "drywall testing". If it won't effortlessly go through a couple walls, it's obviously not powerful enough for dependable defensive use.
You know someone is going to ask about it.


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 09:06 AM   #8
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LOVE the flight control wad they use, I'll be looking for this.


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 10:25 PM   #9
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Heard back from Old Painless:

Quote:
Hi Nate,

As a matter of fact, I spoke with Hal Price of ATK just a week ago about this load, and he assured me that as soon as they are available, he will send me some for evaluation. I have been talking with the guys at ATK for a couple of years about this load, and they are finally going to market some.

I am looking forward to the loads, as I am sure they will be the “best of the best”.

Thanks for the note,

Don


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 10:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Shell View Post
#1 Buck is probably the most effective buckshot size there is (JMHO), and this is LONG overdue. I haven't been able to find it in quite a while and I'm down to less than 25.

#000, #00 and #0 are all a bit big in a 12 gauge, reducing pellet count and pattern density to marginal levels with the biggest pellets. New developments in buffering materials and wad technology has helped a lot, but it's not where it should be.

Everyone is captivated by the huge (#000~.36" & #00 ~ .33") pellets in the bigger sizes, but frequently overlook the fact that they spread out pretty rapidly and you can probably drive a truck between the pellets at longer distances.

If you want a dense swarm of decent size pellets, a good load of #1 Buck is just the ticket.
Couldn't agree more on all points.

#1 buck offers nearly double the payload of a 00 buck cartridge while still offering good-great terminal performance.

The spread of 00 with such a low payload of 8-9 pellets is what turns me away as you mentioned.

I mean this is the typical spread at 20-30 yards with traditional 00 buck:


(Wolf 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 buck at 20 yards)

Of course the Flite Control wad does reduce the spread considerably at that range, but even still there is are huge gaps in the pellet dispersal. Now double the amount of pellets and add the Flite Control:



Mmm, that's what I'm talking about!


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Old November 23rd, 2011, 10:47 PM   #11
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Roll your own...

I buy from these guys...

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Sup...uctinfo/SBK01/
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Old November 24th, 2011, 09:00 AM   #12
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Gotta remember these are 25 yard groups above. That's 75 feet ! Nobody has a 75 foot straight shot inside their home. If you're talking actual home defense, go measure the longest distance inside your home. Do it. I'll bet you'll be hard pressed to find a 7 yard (21 ft) straight shot. More likely 5 yds (15 ft) max. Measure the distance from your barricaded position (bed or dresser) to the door you'll be covering. I bet it's closer to 10-12 FEET. Even the above 7 yd pattern looks very tight and that's at 21 ft. Wonder what the pattern is at 10-12 ft. Personally, I agree with Hvymax above, I'll take a 1 oz. slug at 1200 fps over 15 .30 cal pellets any day. The slug will "cure" bad guy and the douche bag behind him. JMO
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Old November 25th, 2011, 06:39 AM   #13
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Inside the home I'll stick with the PD132 00 Buck. That is more than enough at 21 feet and less. It's all going to create one big hole anyway at those distances.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 07:31 AM   #14
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Polyshok.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 07:40 AM   #15
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I'll keep my ))Buck and Slugs....


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Old November 25th, 2011, 05:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankOceanXray View Post
Polyshok.
DocGKR on m4carbine.net tested the Polyshok ammo and this was his general finding:

Quote:
Several years ago, we tested the 12 gauge 2 3/4" Polyshok "Law Enforcement, Urban Tactical, Impact Reactive SMART Projectile" containing 470 gr of very small spherical lead shot contained in "a low density polymer compound projectile body". Despite some rather amusing claims by the manufacturer, for a general duty load the Polyshok ammunition has inadequate penetration of only 7.9" with terminal performance similar to bird shot. Ave vel = 973 f/s from a 14" Rem 870.


FBI minimum penetration is 12". That's the minimum to be considered acceptable for defensive use.

Why?

Quote:
I will briefly point out that the 12" penetration requirement stems from the fact that not all shots are frontal-torso shots. Many times the bullet must penetrate significantly more tissue, such as when the person being shot has his arms extended in front of him, if the shot is at an oblique angle, etc. You choose ammunition based on a worst-case scenario, not the best.

"But," you say, "there's no way it's THAT important to have a bullet that's only marginally better than my favorite load." That may be well and true. I know you're not planning on missing, and that you figure you'll be able to put a couple of shots center-of-mass with no problems. Don't overestimate your ability when the lead starts flying. There won't be a perfect Weaver stance involved, trigger discipline will go to hell, and carefully aimed shots will be non-existent. How many times have you seen shootouts on "Cops" where they're 2 yards apart, shoot a bunch of times, and yet every shot manages to miss?

Not only that, but hitting the VITAL area of your target is exceedingly difficult. The best case scenario - a full-frontal torso shot - is "easy". The problem is that as the angle of the attacker change, the point of aim has to vary considerably in order to hit the vital structures. For a brief explanation, look at this figure that shows shots that all hit the center of the chest, but none of which bring the bullet path into contact with the vital structures in the thoracic cavity:


That's not even taking into account the chance that the intended target might (and probably does) have a weapon somewhere in front of them like this:



As you can see the vital areas are pretty well covered by the arms which, at an angle, will add somewhere around 4-7" of additional mass that must be penetrated in order to produce an incapacitating hit.

More info: http://www.brassfetcher.com/OJ%20gunshot%20thread.pdf




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisleyfan44 View Post
Gotta remember these are 25 yard groups above. That's 75 feet ! Nobody has a 75 foot straight shot inside their home. If you're talking actual home defense, go measure the longest distance inside your home. Do it. I'll bet you'll be hard pressed to find a 7 yard (21 ft) straight shot. More likely 5 yds (15 ft) max. Measure the distance from your barricaded position (bed or dresser) to the door you'll be covering. I bet it's closer to 10-12 FEET. Even the above 7 yd pattern looks very tight and that's at 21 ft. Wonder what the pattern is at 10-12 ft. Personally, I agree with Hvymax above, I'll take a 1 oz. slug at 1200 fps over 15 .30 cal pellets any day. The slug will "cure" bad guy and the douche bag behind him. JMO
I agree that inside of a building the shot pattern is going to be very tight. That's not a bad thing. The benefit to additional shot is the increased probability of one of the pellets striking a vital structure. More is better. Hence:

Quote:
The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
So with a #1 buck load you have an increased chance of hitting something important and ending the fight.

I'm not saying that slugs and 00 buck are somehow no longer effective, they are definitely a perfectly good choice for self-defense, but this load should prove to be a better overall choice.


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Old November 26th, 2011, 06:28 AM   #17
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I will share two personal experiences:

Polyshock has the ability to be shot from far and still 'group' like a slug. At 75 yards it was POA, POI.

Also, the human body is amazing. We are under the impression from Hollywood likely that bodies go flying when struck by gun fire. Certainly 12ga would set someone down, throw them back..... Not the case. There is no wonder round like that unless I guess you're shooting some kind of hand cannon or a shot to the head or enough precision and penetration to sever the spine. Follow up shots would be very necessary, otherwise.

And luckily no personal experience in the arena of personally accepting gunfire, I would not want to be hit by ANY of this stuff.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 11:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankOceanXray View Post
I will share two personal experiences:

Polyshock has the ability to be shot from far and still 'group' like a slug. At 75 yards it was POA, POI.

Also, the human body is amazing. We are under the impression from Hollywood likely that bodies go flying when struck by gun fire. Certainly 12ga would set someone down, throw them back..... Not the case. There is no wonder round like that unless I guess you're shooting some kind of hand cannon or a shot to the head or enough precision and penetration to sever the spine. Follow up shots would be very necessary, otherwise.

And luckily no personal experience in the arena of personally accepting gunfire, I would not want to be hit by ANY of this stuff.

My problem with Polyshock remains its relatively low penetration versus traditional loads. Will 6-8" of penetration be enough? In some cases absolutely, but in some cases it may only cause a surface wound leaving the attacker still well in the fight. The FBI learned this lesson the hard way (see the 1986 Miami shootout: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm and http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu106.htm .)

Some key points brought up in the "lessons learned" from that shootout:

Quote:
A determined adversary can continue to fight, even when severely wounded many times. The only way to STOP a bad guy is to hit vital organs or his central nervous system, and either of these things takes a lot of penetration.
Quote:
Use good quality ammo. Early in the fight, one of the bad guys was shot with a 9mm round that penetrated his upper arm before entering his body. It stopped just millimeters short of reaching his heart. As a result, he was able to continue to fight for several minutes. Had it reached his heart, it would have stopped him.
Quote:
It is very important to hit your target. But if the round is ineffective, it will not stop the fight.
Following the infamous shootout which, unfortunately, cost the lives of good guys the FBI did an in-depth study of the actual causes of incapacitation of projectile weapons and published it in this brief:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

That study was the basis for which the FBI mandated the minimum of 12" of penetration for any round to be used for self defense. That minimum has remained unchanged to date and has become the single most important rule in determining the effectiveness of self defense ammunition. Any round failing to meet that criteria is thrown out simply because there are alternatives.

Obviously no gunfight is going to be the same as the other. No adversary will be the same. BUT armed with a reliable weapon loaded with good ammo, practice, and knowledge we can seek to maximize our potential ability to survive that fight. There may come a day when I must rely on my training and knowledge to make sure I live to tell the tale and I refuse to fail because of a factor I could have mitigated before the fight even started. If I fail for some other reason that's the way the cards were dealt, but "poor equipment" and "lack of training" won't be in the deck.


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Old December 20th, 2011, 02:02 PM   #19
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#1 buck is what typically comes in 16ga shells.. I like it a lot and have had really good patterning with them.. I often wondered why it was not used in 12 ga..


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Old December 21st, 2011, 12:39 PM   #20
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#1 buck is what typically comes in 16ga shells.. I like it a lot and have had really good patterning with them.. I often wondered why it was not used in 12 ga..
There are #1 buck loads out there for 12 gauge, but they are few and far between and typically lack any additional important options for a self defense load like tight-pattern wadding, buffering, and plated shot. I have a stash of about 50 Winchester Super-X 2.75" #1 buck, but it patterns like most generic buckshot loads which is to say anything past 20 yards and you're likely to have a few pellets miss the target entirely.


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