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Old August 3rd, 2011, 08:37 AM   #21
Lou45

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post
One more quick question for anyone who has carried a .44 Special revolver??

Is the cylinder a behemoth and uncomfortable, or a liability for CCW?
The 5 shot cylinder definately has some bulk.


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Old August 3rd, 2011, 05:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by pop-gunner View Post
Look at the number of shootings documented with each caliber.
There have been far more documented shootings with the .45acp than the .44 special...

Then look at the ballistics per inch and you will see that out of a 5 inch barrel (typical for a 1911 type pistol) and you will see almost identical performance in an identical bullet weight with a slight edge given to the .44 special.

The majority of ammo available for the .44 special commercially will be either cast lead SWC or JSP where the .45acp is available not only in Ball or FMJ form but most manufacturers also offer some form of JHP or other defensive ammo.

You will not find a semi-auto chambered in .44 special and because revolvers are no longer as popular as they once were there is not as much effort put into load development as you will find with with any of the auto-loading calibers. Hell I think they make a .25 now that will damn near kill a moose, (I jest of course) but do look at just the development of 9mm ammo over the last 20 years.
There was a time when the 9mm was thought of as inadequate as a defensive round but I will take 15 rounds Speer Gold Dot 9mm over 8 rounds of .45 ACP ball ammo any day.


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Originally Posted by NateTheShake View Post
Stopping power is a myth. There are simply too many variables to statistically evaluate the so called "stopping power" of any round, the biggest of which being shot placement...
No one wants to believe this, everyone needs to put a number on it, it's the American Way.
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Originally Posted by Lou45 View Post
.......OR, just the opposite, in 2" barrell revolvers. Inch for inch (barrel length), .44 special delivers just as good performance as the .45acp in same design projectiles. The .44 special is definately a hugely overlooked cartridge.
Agreed, and I run SilverTips in mine too.
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Originally Posted by alucard0822 View Post
First off, the charts that those "stopping power" links came from has been debunked thoroughly, the book that contained them has also been rightly ridiculed as junk science at best, being pretty much every factor except for anecdotal evidence of "one shot stops" listed by caliber and ammo brand are thrown out. Clothing, barricades, shot placement, barel length etc.. are not considered. Kinda like saying 22 has a 100% "one shot stopping rating" and 9mm only 10%. What isn't mentioned is that the 22 data was from 3 mafia executions where someone was shot in the back of the head at contact distance, and the 9mm data was from 10 incidents where police fired on suspects with MP5 SMGs, 9 were hit multiple times, and stopped effectively, however not by a single round, 1 was hit only in the hand, before stopping and surrendering, and counting as a "1 shot stop"...
Sad, but true.
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Originally Posted by alucard0822 View Post
...external ballistics between 44spl and 45ACP are very close, with a decent bullet, and good shot placement, I would say they are realistically about equal, perhaps with a slight edge to 44spl on paper, slightly higher sectional density, and slightly higher velocities, but in reality there are dozens or hundreds of factors that will come into play before any minor difference in terminal ballistics.
Aye. They are essentially the same cartridge in different platforms when compared to the importance ANY of the other variables, particularly placement. Of course, delivery is rather important too, and so all of this takes a back seat to training.
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Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post
One more quick question for anyone who has carried a .44 Special revolver??

Is the cylinder a behemoth and uncomfortable, or a liability for CCW?
I'm thin and carried a 2" 5-shot BullDog crossdraw (10 o'clock) off and on a couple years and it wasn't bad if you can tolerate crossdraw. It was much lighter and a little shorter than my 4" .357, but about the same thickness. On the hip (4 o'clock), it printed pretty badly for me. I actually had about as much trouble hiding the speedloaders as I did the gun ("Is that a bunch of .44 speedloaders in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"). If it's worn IWB between 4 and 8 o'clock, I found it uncomfortable, but I'd also point out that IWB holsters have come a LONG way since then. I eventually finally got a 4" 1911, which was much flatter and easier to hide for me, especially the mags.


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Old August 3rd, 2011, 06:38 PM   #23
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(Trying not to restart whole stopping power debate)

Reason #1 : way more .45acp is sold and written about , so it recieves way more R&D .

Reason #2 : most mainstream .44spl loads are woefully underloaded. Way below SAMMI pressures , and way below advertised velocities. CorBon , and speciality companies like Grizzley Ctg , and Buffalo Bore offer .44spl loads at full , yet safe levels. But potentially painful in Bulldogs or alloy Taurus.

If looking for a reduced , yet potent load for a magnum chambered gun, the "Short Barrel" Gold Dot in .44Mag is a prime choice.

Of course with handloads any number of excellent loads are possable, but that's a different discussion.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 06:54 PM   #24
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A 5 shot Tarus ( .41/ .44 / .45 ) is about the size of a Det Spl , and slightly smaller than a 2in Kframe. While only occasionally carried .45 Tarus, frequently carry 2in K frame(s) with ease.

Taking extra care in shirt selection I also carry 3.5in (not 3.75) Vaquero, and been known to carry 4in N frame, so the big little Tarus is nonissue.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 07:06 PM   #25
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All this talk of .44 special's has me interested. If I wanted to get a good cheap revolver to shoot .44 special, what would I get? I've been eying the Charter Arms Bulldog. Are they cheap fun guns or crap best to be avoided?


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Old August 3rd, 2011, 07:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by phidelta308 View Post
All this talk of .44 special's has me interested. If I wanted to get a good cheap revolver to shoot .44 special, what would I get? I've been eying the Charter Arms Bulldog. Are they cheap fun guns or crap best to be avoided?
Quality varies with production period. Regardless of initial fit & finish, they are not meant to be "shooters" (long hours at the range), they're basically lightweight belly guns that will get loose with too much shooting.


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Old August 3rd, 2011, 10:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by E.Shell View Post
Quality varies with production period. Regardless of initial fit & finish, they are not meant to be "shooters" (long hours at the range), they're basically lightweight belly guns that will get loose with too much shooting.
Ahh. I love the looks of the S&W model 24, but don't want to spend upwards of $900 on one. I'm not really interested in shooting .44 magnum, but that may be an easier route, as there seems to be more revolvers to choose from. Plus I'd have the capability of shooting magnums.


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Old August 3rd, 2011, 11:46 PM   #28
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Just save money and get a cheaper Taurus. I keep reading complaints about thin forcing cones on the smiths, so sounds like they are overpriced crap anyway.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/75407


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Old August 4th, 2011, 08:04 AM   #29
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Quality varies with production period. Regardless of initial fit & finish, they are not meant to be "shooters" (long hours at the range), they're basically lightweight belly guns that will get loose with too much shooting.
Yep, I had one, they are carry lots, shoot little revolvers, fun though. The Smith 624's, even in 3" round butt format are still big.

As far as the stopping power figures, I use them as I do everything else...information to consider. There is some validity but it is not an end all, so many variables. For many years now I don't fret too much about the exact loading of a cartridge, as long as it is a good one for the task, as I do with being prudent in my actions and being able to deliver the goods as intended.

I am not a big 44 Special fan, since I feel a 44 Mag is the better chambering in that bore. But 44 Magnum power rounds are not good defensive choices. If I were to carry a large frame 44 Special, I'd just as soon it be a concealable magnum with 44 loadings. I don't like the way a large frame revolver carries concealed, so I opt for smaller frames or the 45 auto. Just my preference since the effectiveness of the two rounds are so similar.


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Old August 5th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #30
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Back in the day when the Bulldogs were the only .44spl bellygun, the knowledgable recomendation was that you needed at least two. One to fire one gunload per year to verify POI , and trust to carry. Another to practice with , and be periodically rebuilt.

I used to think no need for a .44spl full sized gun. Until I felt an M624 !
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Old August 11th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #31
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I don't recall seeing anyone mention the history of the .44 Special and .44 Magnum. My understanding is that Elmer Keith was experimenting with high-pressure loads for the .44 Special. Like the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum, the .44 Magnum case was developed to allow higher pressures than the older, original revolvers could withstand. For both cartridges, they just made the case longer so that it couldn't be chambered in a revolver which couldn't handle the increased pressure.
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Old August 11th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #32
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It was also the solid head case was developed which helped contain the higher pressures.


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