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Old February 14th, 2011, 09:36 AM   #1
This One Goes To Eleven
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PTR 91 "GI" Range Review

So I took my PTR 91 out to Cresap for the 2nd time yesterday.(I suppose this is a kind of a range report, but I can't say much for accuracy type stuff cause I'm one of those dudes that just shoots the target to hell. I do think it is shooting left though I'll deal with that next time)

First range trip I tried it with some steel case Tul stuff, Silver Bear SP, and some Winchester Super X Power-Point I picked up at Walmart. About 60 rounds total, all functioned fine.

Today my buddy tagged a long and we had some real issues with the ammo he brought. He was saying it was Remington but after I checked the bottom of the casing it was stamped Winchester. I can only assume it was more super x because he said he got it at walmart for $20.

Anyway, everything was going fine until he sat down and started shooting his stuff. Basically, the rifle became a bolt action with FTE every round and no cycling of the action. We finally figured out it was the ammo since the UMC I had brought was shooting ok. He wasted 20 bucks on the stuff though so he figured we should just shoot the rest of it to get rid of the junk.

With about 5 rounds left the bolt got completely stuck and wouldn't budge with a fair amount of force on the cocking handle. I ended up field stripping and taking the bolt out. The casing was stuck against the bolt and we almost had to get pliers until we finally wiggled it off.

I do love the rifle though. Took me a while to get use to the weight and cocking function, but I'm starting to feel really comfortable with it.

Saftey is a bear to push with your thumb. Drum sight is very quick on target.
Brass flying out at Mach 2 is kind of cool and kind of annoying at the same time. No problem at Cresap though as it just bounces off the dividers and about 10-15 feet out onto the range. Extremely easy to field strip. 4 big pieces. Love it.

Cleaning is my only real complaint. This darn thing is a PIG! My god, take the 1911, put 50 rounds through it, whipe it out, clean the barrel, oil, done. 10 minutes. This oinker... I feel like a chimney sweep cleaning this thing.

Overall all so far with the ammo
TulAmmo - loves this stuff
Silver Bear - likes it too
Winchester Super X (day 1) - fine
Rem. UMC - no failures but the blowback felt noticeably late as well as weak (like a gas blowback airsoft gun)
Winchester ? (day 2) - horrible. did not cycle action and bolt jammed up

I'm a little concerned about it not shooting the Winchester stuff. I heard the WWB 7.62x51 is bad in PTRs but I've read that stuff is marked with a NATO stamp. I don't know I'll have to try to find out what it was and try more maybe it was a fluke.

Next I'll try to order some surplus but it'll have to wait a bit. I spent all my dough on a wide forend w/ bipod and valentines day stuff for the woman.

Also, does anyone know where I can get feeler gauges? I checked the tool and automotive sections at walmart but with no luck.

Edit: thanks for pointing towards feeler gauges guys. Bolt gap is .014

Update: I just changed the stock and hand guard. Note: The GI version DOES have the large rear buffer screw correct to HK 91s and unlike the other PTRs. It is held in with RED loctite. Took me about 2 hours to change the stock and I couldn't get the screw in to the new one. I'm going to keep at it but I believe the rear screw is not important to the function of the buffer.

Before

After

Last edited by This One Goes To Eleven; February 17th, 2011 at 12:04 PM.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #2
jimbobborg
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Do NOT shoot .308 out of that rifle. It shoots 7.62 NATO for a reason. Get a broken case extractor if you ever try it again.

Feeler gauges are available at Advanced Auto parts. And get a .308 chamber brush, you'll thank me later.

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Old February 14th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by This One Goes To Eleven View Post
Also, does anyone know where I can get feeler gauges? I checked the tool and automotive sections at walmart but with no luck.
I got mine at Sears.

Bryan


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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:14 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by jimbobborg View Post
Do NOT shoot .308 out of that rifle. It shoots 7.62 NATO for a reason. Get a broken case extractor if you ever try it again.

Feeler gauges are available at Advanced Auto parts. And get a .308 chamber brush, you'll thank me later.

Jim
Jim, I am looking at PTR's site and for several of their rifles they list .308 as the caliber, one rifle (PTR91 F)they show as 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester). It seems to me that they don't know what ammo to use in their rifles.

From their own Technical Info page, they say use .308 Winchester and not surplus.

http://www.ptr91.com/techinfo.html
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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #5
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And how about reassembling that bolt? Every time I do it I feel like I've picked up one of those metal puzzles at Cracker Barrel.
Once I finally get it back together I have no idea how I did it.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:27 AM   #6
This One Goes To Eleven
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Originally Posted by 2SAM22 View Post
And how about reassembling that bolt? Every time I do it I feel like I've picked up one of those metal puzzles at Cracker Barrel.
Once I finally get it back together I have no idea how I did it.
I'm in the middle of it right now

The manual + PTR's site all have it listed as .308 but I have heard about getting a broken case extractor I'll grab one next time I order something from midway. The casing was not broken tho, seems to be something went wrong with the extractor as it was clamped tight against it.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:28 AM   #7
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And how about reassembling that bolt? Every time I do it I feel like I've picked up one of those metal puzzles at Cracker Barrel.
Once I finally get it back together I have no idea how I did it.
I think my HK93 was the reason I lost so much hair in my early 20's. I would sit on the floor and just keep trying to get that thing back together. No internet or Google back then.

Could any German soldier actually reassemble that bolt in the dark?
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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by This One Goes To Eleven View Post
I'm in the middle of it right now

The manual + PTR's site all have it listed as .308 but I have heard about getting a broken case extractor I'll grab one next time I order something from midway. The casing was not broken tho, seems to be something went wrong with the extractor as it was clamped tight against it.
Did you clean the bore, in between shooting steel cased and brass?
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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:42 AM   #9
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I thought the GI versions had the original HK specifications and fluting; and were supposed to be more tolerant of the type of ammo they shot? I really wanted a GI version for this reason, till I saw that they were a crappy looking gray park. Now I'm trying to decide between duracoating a GI, or getting a "target" version and just dealing with ammo issues.


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Old February 14th, 2011, 10:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by DarthZed View Post
I thought the GI versions had the original HK specifications and fluting; and were supposed to be more tolerant of the type of ammo they shot? I really wanted a GI version for this reason, till I saw that they were a crappy looking gray park. Now I'm trying to decide between duracoating a GI, or getting a "target" version and just dealing with ammo issues.
They'll shoot steel cased and the thicker military brassed ammo, but you're asking for trouble with the higher pressures and thin brass on civilian .308 ammo. BTW, the Tula steel cased ammo shoots to the left for me, too. If I shoot NATO brass cased ammo, it shoots dead on for the sights.

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Old February 14th, 2011, 11:02 AM   #11
This One Goes To Eleven
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Did you clean the bore, in between shooting steel cased and brass?
First day I shot the steel cased stuff with everything else and cleaned it when I got home.
Yesterday had the hiccups on the Winchester.
After getting the casing unstuck I shot the rest of the steel cased with no issues.
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Originally Posted by DarthZed View Post
I thought the GI versions had the original HK specifications and fluting; and were supposed to be more tolerant of the type of ammo they shot? I really wanted a GI version for this reason, till I saw that they were a crappy looking gray park. Now I'm trying to decide between duracoating a GI, or getting a "target" version and just dealing with ammo issues.
the crappy looking gray part isn't nearly as bad in person. I was worried about that too. Its a lot darker then in photos imo. >If< this just turns out to be a case of somehow I got a box of Winchester that was left out on someone's porch for a month, then I recommend the GI and duracoating if u think it needs it.


One of my worries is, isn't .308 a hotter load than 7.62x51?, so if .308 feels like its cycling weak, I wonder if the 7.62 surplus will give this rifle fits.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #12
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Interesting article detailing the differences between commercial .308, and NATO 7.62.

http://www.303british.com/id36.html

I've been using German surplus 7.62 x 51 (bought a ton of it last year) in my FAL with no problems; of course with the FAL, you just turn up the gas system if it seems to be short-cycling. I was intending to use this ammo in the PTR, so I'm curious as to whether it will cause issues myself.


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Old February 14th, 2011, 01:01 PM   #13
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I have a PTR-91 GI. I have taken it to the range twice (at Cresap no less) and have had no issues with it firing over 100 rounds each time. Then again I only shoot surplus 7.62 NATO out of it since it is much cheaper than the commercial stuff and durable.

Seems like the problem could be ammo related. I would stick with surplus ammo, Russian steel-cased, and high-end ammo stuff like you said worked fine for you. Every gun is picky about what you put through it.

If you are worried about flying brass you can buy port buffers for $29.95 that just snap on top of the receiver. http://www.robertrtg.com/pofport_carry.html

Quote:
One of my worries is, isn't .308 a hotter load than 7.62x51?, so if .308 feels like its cycling weak, I wonder if the 7.62 surplus will give this rifle fits.
Quote:
I've been using German surplus 7.62 x 51 (bought a ton of it last year) in my FAL with no problems; of course with the FAL, you just turn up the gas system if it seems to be short-cycling. I was intending to use this ammo in the PTR, so I'm curious as to whether it will cause issues myself.
All surplus ammo should work fine. I have tried British and Taiwanese which is very dirty stuff and I had no issues. I really need to shoot some of my South African ammo out of it to see how it really handles because that stuff is the dirtiest I know especially with all of that tar in it.
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