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Old December 6th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #1
zombiehunter
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AOW ? Stubby pumps

My understanding is as follows:

If a shottie is sold as a breacher, pistol grip only and didn't have a stock attached to it and then you cut down the barrel it is an AOW.

AOW is a $5 stamp.

If I bought a Mossy 500 sold as a pistol grip only, I could cut down the barrel/mag tube and add a grip to the front pump and it would only cost me a $5 bribe and 6-8 months of wait time.

What do I have wrong?
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Old December 6th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #2
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Yes Sir, You have it wrong

If you bought an AOW from a dealer, the transfer cost is $5.00
If you manufacture your own AOW, then a form 1 will cost you $200.00

You are better off having an SOT do it for you than doing it yourself.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 11:34 PM   #3
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Does the SOT or guy like Midcounty Gun have to do the $200 stamp or is it free for him then $5 when he xfers?
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Old December 7th, 2009, 08:44 AM   #4
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Only on transfer.

A class II manufacturer does not pay a tax on building the gun, it's done on a different form. A transfer between dealers is also tax free. Only on transfer to an individual does the tax apply.


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Plus, she's a shooter....and this used to be a gun board-but that's a topic for another day.
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Old December 7th, 2009, 11:23 AM   #5
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it must be a factory pistol grip, they will check the serial number.


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Old December 7th, 2009, 12:56 PM   #6
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awesome...stupid gun list keeps getting longer...
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Old December 7th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #7
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awesome...stupid gun list keeps getting longer...
i hear ya bro


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Old December 8th, 2009, 01:15 AM   #8
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I want one of these:



http://www.impactguns.com/store/SER-SS12.html

The makers site: http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php
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Old December 8th, 2009, 01:23 AM   #9
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We have a MD Class III planning on making them. I got to shoot Corsica Coating's AOW (first time shooting one) and it was awesome!
While I would love to have a Serbu, the MD made one (they are MDShooter member as well) would be my first choice.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 11:26 AM   #10
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I can't see why that thing is $725 shipped. It's built around a $250 shotgun. Oh well, it's down the list after the Supressor, Saiga-12, T-33, 10/22
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Old December 8th, 2009, 11:52 AM   #11
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The really short ones have shortened mag tube and action bars.
Manufacturers generally, and Class III speccifically have to recoup their liscence fees, hassles of dealing with Feds, pay the light bill, and put food on the table like any business . Viva la Capitalism !( if they couldn't turn a buck, we wouldn't have mfgs.)
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Old December 8th, 2009, 12:21 PM   #12
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ah...didn't realize it wasn't just chop this/thread that all done.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 01:02 PM   #13
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My understanding if the firearm is originally manufactures with a short barrel and pistol grip it is a AOW. If, however you put a stock on it, it then becomes a short barreled shotgun and is subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).

If the shotgun is manufactured and sold as a shotgun (18 inch + barrel) and you cut it off (< 18 inches) it then is a short barreled shotgun and subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).

DO NOT get out the hacksaw without fully knowing and complying with Federal and State laws regarding these firearms. A $200 tax stamp and some time is a lot cheaper than any lawyer that you would have to hire to save you from a ten year federal prison sentance.

Good luck

Jerry
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Old December 8th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry M View Post
My understanding if the firearm is originally manufactures with a short barrel and pistol grip it is a AOW. If, however you put a stock on it, it then becomes a short barreled shotgun and is subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).

If the shotgun is manufactured and sold as a shotgun (18 inch + barrel) and you cut it off (< 18 inches) it then is a short barreled shotgun and subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).

DO NOT get out the hacksaw without fully knowing and complying with Federal and State laws regarding these firearms. A $200 tax stamp and some time is a lot cheaper than any lawyer that you would have to hire to save you from a ten year federal prison sentance.

Good luck

Jerry
The key words are "intended to be fired from the shoulder". If it was made and sold as a firearm not intended to be fired from the shoulder then it is not a rifle or a shotgun by definition.
A short barreled shotgun is a shotgun and so therefore if it was never intended or designed to be fired from the shoulder it is not a short barreled shotgun.

Now about complying with fed law, since one needs permission first before cutting, I am assume the ATF will clarify the distinction for us during the approval process.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiehunter View Post
ah...didn't realize it wasn't just chop this/thread that all done.
Yeah, a 12-12.5" 870 is as short as it gets with a hacksaw. Anything else is replacing parts, moving the magazine lug on the barrel (maybe even just a whole new barrel)
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Old December 8th, 2009, 07:19 PM   #16
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i think corsica's are shorter than the serbu's. i've got one in the future works, i'm just waiting on my buddy to sell his shotgun to me cheap


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Old December 8th, 2009, 09:02 PM   #17
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I chose to do a Form 1 SBS instead of buying an AOW because I might want to use a stock in the future. Plus I wanted a +1 extension instead of a 2rd Super-Shorty tube so I could start with a Walmart 870.
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Old December 9th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry M View Post
My understanding if the firearm is originally manufactures with a short barrel and pistol grip it is a AOW. If, however you put a stock on it, it then becomes a short barreled shotgun and is subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).

If the shotgun is manufactured and sold as a shotgun (18 inch + barrel) and you cut it off (< 18 inches) it then is a short barreled shotgun and subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).

DO NOT get out the hacksaw without fully knowing and complying with Federal and State laws regarding these firearms. A $200 tax stamp and some time is a lot cheaper than any lawyer that you would have to hire to save you from a ten year federal prison sentance.

Good luck

Jerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by novus collectus View Post
The key words are "intended to be fired from the shoulder". If it was made and sold as a firearm not intended to be fired from the shoulder then it is not a rifle or a shotgun by definition. Agreed see above
A short barreled shotgun is a shotgun and so therefore if it was never intended or designed to be fired from the shoulder it is not a short barreled shotgun. What???

Now about complying with fed law, since one needs permission first before cutting, I am assume the ATF will clarify the distinction for us during the approval process.
Please read what I wrote about the approved paperwork.
Good luck

Jerry
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Old December 9th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Good luck

Jerry
Sorry, I was in a hurry when I wrote that. This is what I meant....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry M View Post
My understanding if the firearm is originally manufactures with a short barrel and pistol grip it is a AOW. If, however you put a stock on it, it then becomes a short barreled shotgun and is subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).
I agree. The part I was responding to is below.

Quote:
If the shotgun is manufactured and sold as a shotgun (18 inch + barrel) and you cut it off (< 18 inches) it then is a short barreled shotgun and subject to the $200 tax (paid beforehand with approved paperwork).
The shotgun he is referring to is one manufactured as one with a pistol grip only and was not sold intended to be fired from the shoulder, so therefore it does not meet the statutory definition of "shotgun" and so choppint off the barrel does not make it a "short barreled shotgun" because SBS uses the definition of "shotgun" in it meaning in order for a SBS to be an SBS it must be made from a "shotgun" which is a gun meant to be fired from the sholder of which the pistol grip only shotgun is not. (as this layman understands it)

Quote:
DO NOT get out the hacksaw without fully knowing and complying with Federal and State laws regarding these firearms. A $200 tax stamp and some time is a lot cheaper than any lawyer that you would have to hire to save you from a ten year federal prison sentance.
Correct, but in my haste I did not realize you were referring to the OP and I was thinking about if he had a Class III manufacturer cut the barrel for him which would be a five dollar tax stamp for turning a pistol grip only shotgun into an AOW as I understand it.

Sheesh, that is what I get for not proof reading all my posts and re-reading other's, I make mistakes.
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Old December 10th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #20
goneshootin88
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So am I correct in assuming that if you took, lets say a mossberg, that came with a pistol grip from the factory to someone with their class II, they could cut the barrel and then it would be an AOW with a $5 stamp?
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