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Old July 29th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1
klatekin
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Torn between 2 Arsenal AKs, SGL31-95 vs SAM7R-61

Hello MD shooters
Could use some advice on which Arsenal AK to buy.
I would like to eventually add 2 Arsenal AKs to my collection, one 5.45, one 7.62.
Both the SGL31-95 and SAM7R-61 are currently available in stock and around the same price.

I have been saving up for the SGL31-95 for a while and would have went with it except current receivers are marked FIME group instead of Arsenal which have me hesitant. (will Arsenal marked receivers ever come back?)

Stamped vs Milled receiver, foldering stock vs intermediate length stock, 7.62 vs 5.45
So my question is which one do you think is a better deal to purchase now?

Thanks in advance
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Old July 29th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #2
MARYLANDJOHN
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I'm still having problems with my arsenal ak don't do it it has been to them 2 times and took 7 weeks to get back every time
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Old July 29th, 2013, 04:57 PM   #3
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I have both the sgl21 and sgl31. Both are awesome guns.


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Old July 29th, 2013, 05:51 PM   #4
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In the Engage Armament section, when they got in their shipment of SGL-31s they stated:

Arsenal Bulgaria will no longer be exporting to Arsenal USA anymore so the SLR series will be gone shortly after the last shipment arrives. According to our guy at K-Var, the Russians rose the prices on the last batch of Saiga rifles 30% and are now quoting 40% for further batches. So even the SGL series are up in the air. Anyway, either they wont be imported and converted by Arsenal anymore or prices will rise substantially. Not that it really matters for us since that will be post October. So...

I have an SLR-95 and love it. YMMV
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Old July 29th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #5
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Thats a tough one. The advantage of the SAM7R is it is milled, frankly it doesnt do anything for performance but in long term value of the gun will pay off as milled guns have always commanded much higher prices. Largely due to relative scarcity and a perception that they are better than stamped.

I have both in several platforms and the barrel is a much greater variable than the reciever ever will be.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:20 PM   #6
klatekin
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Originally Posted by MARYLANDJOHN View Post
I'm still having problems with my arsenal ak don't do it it has been to them 2 times and took 7 weeks to get back every time
Sorry to hear that, do you mind sharing which model and what was the problems?
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #7
klatekin
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Originally Posted by yellowsled View Post
I have both the sgl21 and sgl31. Both are awesome guns.
Great to hear thanks. Do you have any opinion on the SAM7R?

Quote:
Originally Posted by why2kmax View Post
In the Engage Armament section, when they got in their shipment of SGL-31s they stated:

Arsenal Bulgaria will no longer be exporting to Arsenal USA anymore so the SLR series will be gone shortly after the last shipment arrives. According to our guy at K-Var, the Russians rose the prices on the last batch of Saiga rifles 30% and are now quoting 40% for further batches. So even the SGL series are up in the air. Anyway, either they wont be imported and converted by Arsenal anymore or prices will rise substantially. Not that it really matters for us since that will be post October. So...

I have an SLR-95 and love it. YMMV
Thanks for the information.

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Originally Posted by Jimbob2.0 View Post
Thats a tough one. The advantage of the SAM7R is it is milled, frankly it doesnt do anything for performance but in long term value of the gun will pay off as milled guns have always commanded much higher prices. Largely due to relative scarcity and a perception that they are better than stamped.

I have both in several platforms and the barrel is a much greater variable than the reciever ever will be.
Thanks for the info. Does the SGL31 and SAM7R share the same barrel?
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #8
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i dont believe kvar's(bulgaria) bullshit. they love to milk the cash cow americans, same with the russians. the indian army & venezuela aren't paying 1k for a 100 series lol
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klatekin View Post
I have been saving up for the SGL31-95 for a while and would have went with it except current receivers are marked FIME group instead of Arsenal which have me hesitant. (will Arsenal marked receivers ever come back?)
It is because of pressure from the Russians considering Arsenal is a competitor therefore KVAR set up a shell company to strictly deal with Saiga's.

It has the same exact build specs as the previous Arsenal marked ones since it is the same company. That being the case they did take off milspec markings making it more commercial. If you want the milspec markings go for the SGL-31-94 which has them.

Otherwise both are quality guns you can't go wrong with either.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #10
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i dont believe kvar's bullshit. they love to milk the cash cow americans, same with the russians. the indian army & venezuela aren't paying 1k for a 100 series lol
Yea but since they are for government use only they don't need to pay tariffs, worry about making a profit, and don't need to make any changes to suit our ridiculous import laws.

Plus Venezuela and Argentina are building them in house now.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #11
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i dont believe kvar's bullshit. they love to milk the cash cow americans, same with the russians. the indian army & venezuela aren't paying 1k for a 100 series lol
I hear ya, the price is tough to swallow for sure but with no skills to do my own conversion, my options for a higher end ak are limited and I need an ak in my life right now lol
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #12
klatekin
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Originally Posted by Scott7891 View Post
It is because of pressure from the Russians considering Arsenal is a competitor therefore KVAR set up a shell company to strictly deal with Saiga's.

It has the same exact build specs as the previous Arsenal marked ones since it is the same company. That being the case they did take off milspec markings making it more commercial. If you want the milspec markings go for the SGL-31-94 which has them.

Otherwise both are quality guns you can't go wrong with either.
I see. I would love a SGL31-94 but can't find one for sale anywhere
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #13
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Like Scott7891 said, FIME is the new Arsenal for SGLs. Same base rifle from Izhmash, same conversion process, still owned by Arsenal USA.

That said, it's overpriced compared to the milled SAM... milled will keep its value better (generally speaking) than stamped. While I'm a fan of 5.45, I'd go for the milled for investment reasons. Or go SLR for 5.45 and save bundles on ammo as long as you don't mind cleaning.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by klatekin View Post
Great to hear thanks. Do you have any opinion on the SAM7R?


Thanks for the information.


Thanks for the info. Does the SGL31 and SAM7R share the same barrel?
Should be better, the arsenal hammer forged barrels are legenday
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #15
klatekin
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Originally Posted by rob-cubed View Post
Like Scott7891 said, FIME is the new Arsenal for SGLs. Same base rifle from Izhmash, same conversion process, still owned by Arsenal USA.

That said, it's overpriced compared to the milled SAM... milled will keep its value better (generally speaking) than stamped. While I'm a fan of 5.45, I'd go for the milled for investment reasons. Or go SLR for 5.45 and save bundles on ammo as long as you don't mind cleaning.
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I may go with the SAM7R now and keep an eye out for a SGL31-64 with Arsenal and milspec markings.
Would love a SLR105 but too expensive to find.
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Should be better, the arsenal hammer forged barrels are legenday
Good to hear SAM7R have better barrels.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:46 PM   #16
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Meh, how many folks shoot (or plan to shoot) their AK's past 100M or so? I sure don't. There are too many other rifles out there that fit that role. All of my sub $800 Ak's are usefully accurate and reliable out to 100M.

Understanding that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what do the Arsenals bring to the table to justify the significant $$$ increase? I mean, for less than the price of an Arsenal, I bought an O-PAP AND an M-10. I'm certainly not against paying more for an AK that is "better" - in fact, I've always wanted a high-end AK, but I haven't bought one because I don't understand what additional benefit I'm getting for my $$$. Someone please fill me in, because otherwise I'm spending my last pre-ban dollars on a non AK platform rifle.


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Old July 29th, 2013, 07:48 PM   #17
TheBulge
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I vote for the SAM7R
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Old July 29th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #18
klatekin
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Originally Posted by snallygaster View Post
Meh, how many folks shoot (or plan to shoot) their AK's past 100M or so? I sure don't. There are too many other rifles out there that fit that role. All of my sub $800 Ak's are usefully accurate and reliable out to 100M.

Understanding that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what do the Arsenals bring to the table to justify the significant $$$ increase? I mean, for less than the price of an Arsenal, I bought an O-PAP AND an M-10. I'm certainly not against paying more for an AK that is "better" - in fact, I've always wanted a high-end AK, but I haven't bought one because I don't understand what additional benefit I'm getting for my $$$. Someone please fill me in, because otherwise I'm spending my last pre-ban dollars on a non AK platform rifle.
The M-10 is very nice, too bad I missed them for $600 couple days ago.
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I vote for the SAM7R
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Old July 29th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #19
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I hear ya, the price is tough to swallow for sure but with no skills to do my own conversion, my options for a higher end ak are limited and I need an ak in my life right now lol
If your in MD you have no choice, Oct. 1 is close so you have to bend over for kvar and Ivan if you want a 100 series. Which really pisses me off because I know that they have the same soviet quota system, lax qc standards,drunk by noon and would sure as shit sell you an AK for 1000 rubles, a loaf of bread and some cheap vodka.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 08:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by snallygaster View Post
Meh, how many folks shoot (or plan to shoot) their AK's past 100M or so? I sure don't. There are too many other rifles out there that fit that role. All of my sub $800 Ak's are usefully accurate and reliable out to 100M.

Understanding that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what do the Arsenals bring to the table to justify the significant $$$ increase? I mean, for less than the price of an Arsenal, I bought an O-PAP AND an M-10. I'm certainly not against paying more for an AK that is "better" - in fact, I've always wanted a high-end AK, but I haven't bought one because I don't understand what additional benefit I'm getting for my $$$. Someone please fill me in, because otherwise I'm spending my last pre-ban dollars on a non AK platform rifle.
I stated so in another thread but I'll repost it here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7891 View Post
Honestly at this point buy an Arsenal. Yes they are expensive but for many good reasons.

1) All imported from military arsenals (SGL's from Izhmash in Russia the place where they first made the AK, SLR series from Kazanlak in Bulgaria who is still the official arsenal of the Bulgarian military).
2) Factory-spec receivers
3) All brand new parts not an American mixmaster of dubious quality
4) Hammer forged chrome lined machine gun grade barrels that will be able to shoot any type of ammo you buy
5) Excellent build quality
6) Holds its value so one can easily resell it if they don't like it
7) Arsenal milled receivers are hot-die forged making them more durable than the Cold War era and domestic American milled receivers.........Also the cost to convert a standard Saiga to Arsenal specs would put it above the cost of an Arsenal that won't hold its value like an Arsenal would.
The O-PAP doesn't have a chrome-lined bore (or any melinite/nitriding for that matter) meaning anything else but brass ammo you are wearing away the barrel at a much faster rate especially since all steel-cased ammo since 1994 use bimetallic projectiles.

The M10 has had its fair share of lemons and is essentially a WASR with a Draco FSB/ Gas combo.
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