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Old June 18th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #41
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Lets be honest here none of us were trusting of plastic ar lowers till this thing came along. If we had been we all would have sought out the bushmaster carbon 15 guns. But no one did. The internet has always been full of stories of these guns blowing up on people. Only guys looking for the bottom of the price barrel guns accept those. This is only to skirt the law. I think now is not the time and this is not the state to play too close to the law.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #42
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wow touchy crowd around here. I see how it is here disagree and your an idiot. sorry for having an opinion won't let it happen again. as far as these lowers being ''better'' I'm sure they are. good luck with them I'm sure this plastic is better then the plastic used by a multi million dollar company (bushmaster) owned by a mutli billion dollar company (cerberous).
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Old June 18th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #43
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I would have no problem buying one of these however, I'd like to see the stress tests done first. I want to see at least 10,000 rounds of 556 fired with one. I'd also like to see one dropped from a few stories up, ran over by a car, fired in sub zero temperatures and lastly, take a few wacks by a hammer.

Easily finishing one with a hand drill is definitely appealing. I have a number of 80% aluminum lowers (don't want to say how many on the Internet) and they aren't exactly easily finished without the right tools along with some know how.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to be a guinea pig for a product that hasn't proven itself. I sure as hell am not going to take the word of someone looking to profit of the sale of them. The manufacture is just assuming his design and polymer choice will hold up over the long haul. He hasn't even manufactured one for himself yet. I do believe he's going about it the right way by designing the lower from scratch. He knows the polymer is weaker than 7075 aluminum which is why he's beefing up the material at the two locations known to fail on polymer lowers. Let's be honest here. The manufacturer can say these lowers are the greatest invention since sliced bread but polymer lowers don't exactly have a stellar track record.

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Old June 18th, 2013, 08:01 PM   #44
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wow touchy crowd around here. I see how it is here disagree and your an idiot. sorry for having an opinion won't let it happen again. as far as these lowers being ''better'' I'm sure they are. good luck with them I'm sure this plastic is better then the plastic used by a multi million dollar company (bushmaster) owned by a mutli billion dollar company (cerberous).
Not defending anyone here but the plastic doesn't need to be better. The design just has to be better. Every other polymer lower manufactured on a large scale has been designed exactly like it's aluminum counter parts. These 80% lowers have been designed to a different spec.

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Old June 18th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #45
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I would have no problem buying one of these however, I'd like to see the stress tests done first. I want to see at least 10,000 rounds of 556 fired with one. I'd also like to see one dropped from a few stories up, ran over by a car, fired in sub zero temperatures and lastly, take a few wacks by a hammer.

Easily finishing one with a hand drill is definitely appealing. I have a number of 80% aluminum lowers (don't want to say how many on the Internet) and they aren't exactly easily finished without the right tools along with some know how.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to be a guinea pig for a product that hasn't proven itself. I sure as hell am not going to take the word of someone looking to profit of the sale of them. The manufacture is just assuming his design and polymer choice will hold up over the long haul. He hasn't even manufactured one for himself yet. I do believe he's going about it the right way by designing the lower from scratch. He knows the polymer is weaker than 7075 aluminum which is why he's beefing up the material at the two locations known to fail on polymer lowers. Let's be honest here. The manufacturer can say these lowers are the greatest invention since sliced bread but polymer lowers don't exactly have a stellar track record.

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this is what I am talking about. said a lot better however.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #46
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Thanx for your support Bro. I probably will do some gun shows but my main objective will be visiting local gun shops and let them know that I will have lowers for AR15s, AR10's, and 1911's. Starting I have to have an order of 50 or more before I ship out. Im working on flyers and more now. Even trying to spread word on social networks like facebook and continue to support my fav gun shop and crew and Engage Armament
Let me know if you need a hand with anything or a test range to work these out.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 05:35 AM   #47
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Polymer lowers have been built for pistols for years now. What's the big deal about doing it for an AR?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 06:54 AM   #48
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Lets be honest here none of us were trusting of plastic ar lowers till this thing came along. If we had been we all would have sought out the bushmaster carbon 15 guns. But no one did. The internet has always been full of stories of these guns blowing up on people. Only guys looking for the bottom of the price barrel guns accept those. This is only to skirt the law. I think now is not the time and this is not the state to play too close to the law.
Your post has a few things, which perhaps you could have said better.

For one thing - it's on the internet so it must be true eh? (That these guns blow up on people.) Manufactured guns blow up on people occasionally too. Every product may have defects or fail over time with use. I fail to see how you can say these guns blow up - there's no evidence they are any better or worse than any other receiver.

Secondly, this is not skirting the law. The law isn't written with "exceptions" it is written with restrictions. Building your own AR through 80% lowers is not an exception - It is a fully legal way to build your own firearm. (As long as you don't do anything illegal, like build it with banned features, etc.) Calling it "skirting the law" does nothing but further reduce your rights voluntarily - as if you are buying into the media and public misconception that there is a problem in some way. There isn't. This is perfectly legal.

As far as your "none of us trusting" comment, clearly that is not the case, because it is an absolute, and absolutes are almost never true. Your statement seems argumentative and pejorative. If you had been more polite, perhaps you could have said that *you* don't trust polymer receivers, or that you felt there wasn't enough history of the product to believe in it. But making statements like "None of us" is simply wrong.

There are products such as New Freedom Armory's LW-15 polymer receivers available in the market (I have two waiting for "Not Disapproved" now). They have extensive torture test video's on their website regarding their product. The best evidence I could find on the Internet was a comment that someone (source unidentified) claimed there was a wearing of the drill hole of one of the trigger components over time. One, total one, heresay comment of a problem. And it was someone who "heard" of a problem, not someone who experienced it.

I fail to see how you can criticize a product when it hasn't been tried and factual comments on its use and any problems experienced are posted.

I for one, will be interested to follow the discussion and factual history of these products. Sounds exciting.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 07:01 AM   #49
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Watkins87:

Can you describe the machining process a little more with regard to using a drill press? In particular, what type of milling bit or whatever is used to hollow out the trigger group cavity?

Obviously, the polymer is easier to work than aluminium, but are there speed ranges and or horsepower ranges for a drill press which would be better? Without knowing, I would suspect higher rotation speeds might produce the best cut in the material? Is a milling bit recommended for the hollowing out of the cavity?

You also said the jig is one-time use - is it destroyed in the process of manufacture?

Thanks!

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Old June 19th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #50
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Please. No one here is going to be beating on their weapon enough that whether it's polymer or aluminum or titanium is going to make a difference. The guys who do have it issued to them by Uncle Sam.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 08:20 AM   #51
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I understand the concept if drilling plastic at home. No one is finishing aluminum lowers that just is not feasible. I just think this is all dumb.
Polymer = plastic
Plastic = crap
I would still buy a finished one do the back ground and wait. Worth it for the warranty and durability alone.
this statement is just ignorant of current material science

if you feel better with metal then more power to ya, but realize it is based on emotion and not facts


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Old June 19th, 2013, 08:23 AM   #52
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wow touchy crowd around here. I see how it is here disagree and your an idiot. sorry for having an opinion won't let it happen again. as far as these lowers being ''better'' I'm sure they are. good luck with them I'm sure this plastic is better then the plastic used by a multi million dollar company (bushmaster) owned by a mutli billion dollar company (cerberous).
Having an “opinion” and stating things that are factually wrong are two different things. Not to mention that your opinion should be based on facts. It could be that my “opinion” is that the sky is purple. My “opinion” would be wrong in that situation.

This is also the case when your “opinion” is that 80% lowers are skirting the law or your “opinion” that polymer is crap. Building a 100% lower from an 80% lower is totally legal, the ATF and other government agencies have even stated this. Likewise, polymer is used in multiple guns, with multiple success stories. Having an opinion is good, having facts is better.

Not to mention that you don’t need to be a million dollar company to buy polymer resin or molding dishes. I can buy the exact same raw materials as any mega corporation and build a tool that is almost exactly like theirs. This is basically a small business startup where they are using already tested polymer and a redesign that improves on the flaws of past lowers. The engineering/facts on these are so solid that I don’t have many fears in them not working as stated.

Also, they offer a lifetime warranty. If lower v1.0 sucks and breaks after 3 years of use you will be able to return it and get V3.6 for free. I doubt they will break or “blow up” though as other lowers of much lesser quality haven’t even been shown to do this.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 08:23 AM   #53
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Lets be honest here none of us were trusting of plastic ar lowers till this thing came along.
wrong - my first ar build was with a plumb crazy polymer lower and i've been using it for years and thousands of rounds without a single problem.


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Old June 19th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #54
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #55
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wow touchy crowd around here. I see how it is here disagree and your an idiot. sorry for having an opinion won't let it happen again. as far as these lowers being ''better'' I'm sure they are. good luck with them I'm sure this plastic is better then the plastic used by a multi million dollar company (bushmaster) owned by a mutli billion dollar company (cerberous).
We all have the right to an Opinion and Free Speech and such......but if you're not interested in making purchases theres no need for making statements. I currently own multiple firearms and wouldnt mine having extras in my stash with Polymer lowers that can not be taken or tracked by folks who are interested in taking them "hypothetically".


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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #56
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Watkins87:

Can you describe the machining process a little more with regard to using a drill press? In particular, what type of milling bit or whatever is used to hollow out the trigger group cavity?

Obviously, the polymer is easier to work than aluminium, but are there speed ranges and or horsepower ranges for a drill press which would be better? Without knowing, I would suspect higher rotation speeds might produce the best cut in the material? Is a milling bit recommended for the hollowing out of the cavity?

You also said the jig is one-time use - is it destroyed in the process of manufacture?

Thanks!
The machining process, instructions, and drill bits will be included also with video during time of official release. The Fire Control Pocket is made out of different material (NOT POLYMER) to machine out to make it easier to drill out. Youtube Videos are coming soon. The Jigs are one time use because theres parts that will break away after use for precise drilling.


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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:59 PM   #57
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Let me know if you need a hand with anything or a test range to work these out.
Will let you know Dude


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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #58
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No one is finishing aluminum lowers that just is not feasible.
I guess you missed the thread where someone finished an Al lower using a Dremel tool only.

Many have been finished with just a drill press.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread...t=lower+dremel
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Old June 19th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #59
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Yes

The Colors that are available:

Black
Burnt Bronze
Coyote Tan
Desert Sand
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Magpul Flat Dark Earth
Magpul Foilage Green
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Polymer80 isn't offering safety orange? I want to make an orange and black AR...
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Old June 19th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #60
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wrong - my first ar build was with a plumb crazy polymer lower and i've been using it for years and thousands of rounds without a single problem.
Now that's just "Plumb Crazy"

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