Pump or Auto?

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  • RaVis

    Oi!
    Jun 19, 2011
    2,192
    What system do you prefer on your general purpose shotgun if you could only have one? Would you stay with a manual pump or go for one of the new semi-auto wonders like the M4 or tricked out Saiga?

    ;)
     

    Bikebreath

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 30, 2009
    14,836
    in the bowels of Baltimore
    Semi-Auto. For a few reasons, but the most important to me are the ability to operate it with one hand, and shoot it faster with less recoil.


    There is more recoil with the Benelli shown in the video, than many other semi-auto shotguns, because the Benelli is not a gas operated gun, but a recoil action gun. It is also called inertia action. I have one and a light shooting Remington 1100 and the Beneilli isn't bad to shoot, but there is noticeably more kick to it.

    ETA: I have to say I can't help the OP, since the 3 shotguns I own are all semi-auto.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    "Nothing kicks harder than a fixed breech gun and without question gas semi-auto guns have far less felt recoil than other action types. They achieve this by breaking up the recoil pulse into sections (the same recoil, but at lower level over a longer period of time), as beautifully described by Bob Brister is his book Shotgunning, The Art and the Science." - Randy Wakeman

    From: http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil.htm

    Any opinions on those recoil reducing butt-stocks? Recoil is why more people don't shoot shotguns. Out to about 60 yards it's a fantastic weapon, if you can get over the recoil and round limitations. I'd prefer a high capacity carbine over a shotgun for defensive applications.

    calloutUniversalRecoilReducer.jpg


    Not%20your%20Daddys%20Shotgun%20-%20ARTICLE%20PICTURE%204.JPG
     

    Mdeng

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Nov 13, 2009
    8,568
    Virginia
    I prefer a semi-auto. If I had to chose one it would be the Remington 11-87. The gas system is self adjusting and with several different barrels available it is very versatile.
     

    tball

    Ultimate Member
    May 20, 2010
    2,135
    St. Augustine, Florida
    I shoot semi auto everything. I'm used to just squeezing the trigger to make it go bang again. I have an old Remington 1100 that I bought it because it is a soft shooter. The action absorbs a lot of the recoil.
     

    DarthZed

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 25, 2010
    1,647
    Howard County
    Semi! :D
    257.jpg


    Just kidding. I love my Saiga, but for general purpose you just can't beat a Mossberg 590 or Remington 870.

    Edit: I was fixated on my Saiga as the semi option since it was mentioned. And while it is a great tactical gun, I don't consider it as practical as a conventional shotgun due to its use of magazines. However, after considering the fact that semi includes non-Saiga shotguns, I'd revise my opinion to say semi. There are advantages to both. You get a bit more rate of fire and reduced recoil from the semis, but a bit more reliability from the pumps. The semis are still very reliable, and with a recoil reducing stock, the pumps are very manageable. Of course you can put a recoil reducing stock on the semi's too (like on my Saiga). I do prefer not having to cycle the pump for follow-up shots (just never got the hang of that without losing sight picture).
     

    jimbobborg

    Oddball caliber fan
    Aug 2, 2010
    17,112
    Northern Virginia
    I have a semi-auto, a pump, and a double-barreled shotgun. The pump has a recoil reducing stock, which I prefer over the standard stock when I shoot turkey loads out of it. I use my semi-auto for everything else. I haven't fired the double since I went dove hunting two years ago.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    If you LIKE a semi that's fine. If you LIKE the recoil factor w/ a gas operated , that's fine too.

    But they're not faster.

    A highly skilled person can operate a pump faster than an auto can cycle.

    Any reasonably practiced pump shooter is cycling faster than the target aquisition for second target for either type.
     

    DarthZed

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 25, 2010
    1,647
    Howard County
    If you LIKE a semi that's fine. If you LIKE the recoil factor w/ a gas operated , that's fine too.

    But they're not faster.

    A highly skilled person can operate a pump faster than an auto can cycle.
    Any reasonably practiced pump shooter is cycling faster than the target aquisition for second target for either type.



    You were saying? :D And this guy isn't even particularly good. I'd also like to point out your "Highly skilled" qualification; anyone can shoot a semi fast without extensive training. Which might be a bad thing. lol
     
    Last edited:

    Tyeraxus

    Ultimate Member
    May 15, 2012
    1,165
    East Tennessee
    I actually prefer a pump because of the lower rate of fire. I'm not an incredible marksman, and coupled with the low round count, the pump makes me a deliberate shooter. The semi lets me take a follow-up frustrated shot which often misses just as badly or worse while the pump forces me to take a breath and reacquire.

    'Course, that's from a trap and skeet perspective (all I've ever shot). In a HD role I think I'd want a semi just for the capability to put two downrange in a hurry.
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    What system do you prefer on your general purpose shotgun if you could only have one? Would you stay with a manual pump or go for one of the new semi-auto wonders like the M4 or tricked out Saiga?

    ;)

    What do you mean by "general purpose"? What are you going to use the gun for?

    If it's for hunting, either a quality pump or quality auto will do just fine. If it's for clay targets, a good quality gas operated autoloader would work better than a pump or an inertia autoloader. If it's for a three gun match, probably an old school 1100 works best, especially if you opt for a 20ga on a 12ga frame.
     
    Last edited:

    Jed195

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2011
    3,901
    MD.
    The mere sound of a "pump" shotgun racking that first shell into the chamber is a good attention getter for anyone on the other end of it. Myy grandfather used to always say "automatic means you can't fix it yourself". You might be able to figure out what's wrong with a pump action if it fails , a semi-auto that goes down might become a paper weight if you're not a gunsmith. I've got a lever action, two pump action and will soon have a semi-auto, all in 12 gauge so I like 'em all!
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    The mere sound of a "pump" shotgun racking that first shell into the chamber is a good attention getter for anyone on the other end of it. Myy grandfather used to always say "automatic means you can't fix it yourself". You might be able to figure out what's wrong with a pump action if it fails , a semi-auto that goes down might become a paper weight if you're not a gunsmith. I've got a lever action, two pump action and will soon have a semi-auto, all in 12 gauge so I like 'em all!

    If you ever really needed that gun, you might want to have it chambered to start with. Otherwise, the bad guy would kill you before you tried to scare them with a "mere sound of a pump shotgun racking that first shell into the chamber". That sounds good, sounds like TV stuff, but is less than realistic. The sound that "really" scares them is "BOOM".

    Todays autoloaders are very reliable. They are a better choice for most people. I would say, based on years of observation, that more folks jam pumps than autos. Autos are really no more complicated than pumps. Most anyone can keep them in good working order and many repairs (which are few and far between) can be figured out by the owner.
     

    damifinowfish

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 14, 2009
    2,241
    Remulak
    Durability, Simple, Makes a sound that intimidates and lets every one know you have a shot gun.

    Pump Action!

    It only takes one shot to get the job done if you place the shot!
     

    Redcobra

    Senior Shooter
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 10, 2010
    6,422
    Near the Chesapeake Bay
    Anybody out there using a Benelli M2 Tactical?
    I'm lazy and want a SA.

    ps: Didn't CG buy Fabarm? Fabarm has an XLR Tactical that looks sweet. 20" barrel.
    Wonder if that is being imported?
     

    Jed195

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2011
    3,901
    MD.
    If you ever really needed that gun, you might want to have it chambered to start with. Otherwise, the bad guy would kill you before you tried to scare them with a "mere sound of a pump shotgun racking that first shell into the chamber". That sounds good, sounds like TV stuff, but is less than realistic. The sound that "really" scares them is "BOOM".


    My fnp-45 tactical is more than enough to deal with any uninvited guests, it's within reach and alot easier to move through a house with than any shotgun I own. The handgun will get me to the other weapons if it goes that far. I have my son, a 6 year old, in the house and "one in the chamber" doesn't fly with me. My guns are'nt staged throughout the house for impending home invasions or for someone to stumble upon one and "boom" explanation time.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    A highly skilled person can operate a pump faster than an auto can cycle.
    Once upon a time, back when semi-autos were slow and pumps had no disconnector, this MIGHT have been true. Nowadays... not even close. Ever seen a Saiga 12 on full auto? No pump gunner is going to be able to move that fast, ever. I am willing to agree with the premise that cycling speed isn't everything, but let's not fool ourselves about this topic.

    Of course, if you can't make up your mind, there's always the Benelli M3...

    Oh, and as for recoil-reducing buttstocks: yes, yes, and more yes. They take some getting used to, but they enhance the gun in pretty much every way.
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    Once upon a time, back when semi-autos were slow and pumps had no disconnector, this MIGHT have been true. Nowadays... not even close. Ever seen a Saiga 12 on full auto? No pump gunner is going to be able to move that fast, ever. I am willing to agree with the premise that cycling speed isn't everything, but let's not fool ourselves about this topic.

    Of course, if you can't make up your mind, there's always the Benelli M3...

    Oh, and as for recoil-reducing buttstocks: yes, yes, and more yes. They take some getting used to, but they enhance the gun in pretty much every way.

    Back when I shot some IPSC some 20-25 years ago, I won more than one bet and more than one $20 bill shooting an 870 faster than the autos of the day (including the then new Benelli). Speeds were measured on a PACT timer for three shots. By all means, let's not fool ourselves about this topic. No, I don't want to see some you-tube stuff about a pos Russian abortion that some people call a shotgun. LOL
     

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