NFA Trust Question

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    28,431
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I just got my first stamp the other day and I didn't have anything attached to Schedule A and the trust doesn't have a bank account. Sent in a money order.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,914
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    MD Code Est. & Trusts. 14-404 Creation of trust (Maryland Code (2013 Edition))

    (a) Written transfer. -- A person may create a trust by transferring property in writing to another person if the document transfers property in a legally recognized manner and:

    (1) Identifies the recipient of the property as the trustee;

    (2) Identifies the beneficiary of the trust; and

    (3) Identifies the property as being transferred under the Maryland Discretionary Trust Act.

    (b) Written declaration. -- A person may create a trust by written declaration if the written declaration is executed in a legally recognized manner and:

    (1) Identifies the property to be held in trust;

    (2) Identifies the beneficiary of the trust;

    (3) Identifies the declarant as trustee and title holder; and

    (4) Identifies the property as being held in trust under the Maryland Discretionary Trust Act.

    (c) Conditioned upon occurrence of a future event. -- A person having the right to transfer property upon a future event may create a trust upon the occurrence of the future event by:

    (1) Designating:

    (i) The event;

    (ii) The property;

    (iii) The beneficiary; and

    (iv) The trustee or mechanism for selecting the trustee; and

    (2) Creating the trust by:

    (i) Making the designation in a will, a trust, a deed, an insurance policy, an instrument exercising a power of appointment, or a writing designating a beneficiary of contractual rights; or

    (ii) Registering the designation with or delivering it to the fiduciary, payor, issuer, or obligor of the future right.

    (d) Registration of property or transfer to trustee. -- A transferor
    creates a trust whenever the transferor registers property in the name of or
    transfers property to the trustee or declarant and uses in substance the
    following words after the trustee's or declarant's name: "As trustee for?????
    (name of beneficiary) under the Maryland Discretionary Trust Act."

    (e) Acceptance by trustee. -- The obligations of a trustee begin when the
    trustee accepts the trust property by writing in substance the following words:

    "Trustee's Receipt and Acceptance

    I,?????? (name of trustee) acknowledge receipt of the trust property
    described below or in the attached instrument and accept the trust as trustee
    for (name of beneficiary) under the Maryland Discretionary Trust Act. I
    undertake to administer and distribute the trust property pursuant to the
    Maryland Discretionary Trust Act. The trust property consists of
    (description of property).

    Dated:



    (Signature of Trustee)"

    (f) Property designated to be held under the Maryland Discretionary Trust Act. -- A trust may be created by specifying that property is to be held in trust under the Maryland Discretionary Trust Act.

    (g) Residency; laws of other states. --

    (1) A trust may be created under this subtitle if, at the time the trust is created, the transferor, the trustee, or the beneficiary is a resident of this State, the transferor's, the trustee's, or the beneficiary's principal place of business is in this State, or trust property is located in this State.

    (2) The trust remains subject to this subtitle even upon a subsequent change in residence or principal place of business of the transferor or trustee, or removal of the trust property from this State.

    (3) A registration, declaration, or transfer made under an act of another state substantially similar to this subtitle:

    (i) Is governed by the law of that state; and

    (ii) May be enforced in this State.

    (h) Other means; enforcement. --

    (1) This subtitle may not limit other means of declaring trusts or transferring property in trust.

    (2) A trust, the terms of which do not conform to this subtitle, may be enforceable according to its terms.

    The issue is whether the trust is in place upon the application for the tax stamp. If the trust has no "corpus", then it is not in being, and therefore cannot legally be the applicant for the tax stamp. If the ATF really wanted to get technical and review all these trust documents when an initial tax stamp is being applied for, the ATF could reject applications/forms from "trusts" that have not been funded because the trust is not considered to be in place. In essence, the trust is not created until it has been funded.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    a) A trust checking account, to me, is a written transfer of assets to the trust.

    b) BATFE does not look into the trust language to see if it is legal, much less look into the actual assets of the trust. At least for now.

    We executed our trust, opened a checking account and proceeded. 2x Form 1, and 1x Form 4 so far have gone through. I do need to update the App A for the next two Form 1s (now that SBRs are being approved again).
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,638
    Timonium
    a) A trust checking account, to me, is a written transfer of assets to the trust.

    b) BATFE does not look into the trust language to see if it is legal, much less look into the actual assets of the trust. At least for now.

    We executed our trust, opened a checking account and proceeded. 2x Form 1, and 1x Form 4 so far have gone through. I do need to update the App A for the next two Form 1s (now that SBRs are being approved again).


    The bigger point of this is that a trust must be funded to actually exist. Whether with a dollar as an asset or a trust bank account.

    Adding a dollar to the schedule A is much easier and every bit as legal as a trust account.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    I just got a response back from the attorney who wrote my trust. It states that the money or account does not get entered on Schedule A since it is enumerated within the document. I take this to mean that you don't need list it since you've you've attested under the seal of a Notary that you have given that money to the trust. It only needs to exist somewhere. Note IANAL so I may be wrong.

    If however, the funding isn't enumerated in the document, then it might be wise to include the funding method on the Schedule. JMHO
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,914
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    I just got a response back from the attorney who wrote my trust. It states that the money or account does not get entered on Schedule A since it is enumerated within the document. I take this to mean that you don't need list it since you've you've attested under the seal of a Notary that you have given that money to the trust. It only needs to exist somewhere. Note IANAL so I may be wrong.

    If however, the funding isn't enumerated in the document, then it might be wise to include the funding method on the Schedule. JMHO

    That is correct, but I did not include the funding method within the trust document itself. This makes it a lot easier for people to figure out exactly how they want to fund the trust, edit Schedule A, and do it however they want to.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    Just stating the amount assigned to the trust also gives flexibility in that it can be in the form of cash, checking account, silver, gold or whatever. But if it States "a $5 bill" that's a different case and your locked into having that $5 bill for the life of the trust. Of course I guess it could be amended.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    275,552
    Messages
    7,286,145
    Members
    33,476
    Latest member
    Spb5205

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom