Md Handgun permit interview

CypherPunk · Oct 19, 2012

JMintzer said:
I spoke to one of my references last night. He told me of an interesting question at the end of the interview.

The Trooper asked if he was the MDSP, would he issue me a permit. My friend said, "Yes, I would."

The trooper asked him, "Why?"

It completely caught him off guard. What an odd question to ask...

Jamie

Because its your inalienable right.

Because the people who founded this country did so under the provision that the right shall not be infringed.

Because the supreme court ruled you have a right to self protection outside the home.

Because the Maryland State Police, by their own actions, lack the moral authority to judge you.

Because the State Police take an oath to uphold the Constitution...

Shall I go on?

uscoastiee · Oct 19, 2012

CypherPunk said:
Going from memory, there are two different programs applicable here;

The Federal program was instituted to force states, like Maryland, to allow retired and former LEOs to carry. The federal program is subject to certain terms and conditions imposed by congress. A lot of LEOs I have talked with are lukewarm to MSI's efforts because they think they will always have the option to apply and carry under the federal program. What they fail to realize is how restrictive the requirements are. Again, from memory, the federal program requires 7 or more years of service, plus a honorable separation, etc in order to be eligible.

If you get suspended while under investigation for false allegations (I’m sure this never happens) you have no carry rights in MD. If your agency refuses to provide you with an ID card, you have no carry rights in MD.

The Maryland program is a whole different situation. Here the State Police MAY grant some retired LEO's a CCW permit for a certain model of firearm, subject to annual qualifications, etc. and there is no guarantee it will be renewed.

Again, all this is from memory - but the lesson is that LEO's should support MSI for self serving reasons, not just MSI's defense of the 2nd Amendment.

Not to split hairs here, but it sounds like you're talking about the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act known as LEOSA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act

The time of required service is 10 years or retirement due to an agency approved disability. Along with more specific requirements, that are outlined in the link above.

MD requires a former/retired LEO that carries under LEOSA to undergo annual firearms training/certification in Sikesville. Some states leave the annual firearms requirement at the county level, but MD keeps in at the state level.

There is nothing to apply for, federally, for an active or former/retired LEO to carry under LEOSA. Instead, the actually act lists requirements that both active LEO's and retired/former LEO's must meet and be in compliance with, if carrying under LEOSA.

The gentlemen that runs the LEOSA course of fire in Sikesville appears to have his own view on LEOSA, as he swore to me on the phone that LEOSA was only for retired/former LEO's, not active LEO's. I tried to correct his thought process, but he wasn't having it, so I politely ended our conversation. My guess was that this guy only certifies retired/former LEO's that live in MD, in their annual required firearms certification, so to him LEOSA only applies to retired/former LEO's. When, in fact, he couldn't be more misled, LEOSA is broken into two seperate parts, where each part outlines the requirements and restrictions for both active and retired/former LEO's to carry off duty in all 50 states.

Name Taken · Oct 19, 2012

uscoastiee said:
MD requires a former/retired LEO that carries under LEOSA to undergo annual firearms training/certification in Sikesville. Some states leave the annual firearms requirement at the county level, but MD keeps in at the state level.

Not really....other departments can run the course of fire and certify the user...just not MSP in Sykesville.

If you are under LEOSA as "currently employed" then your normal department qualifying should be good. No reason to qualify with your department then go to Sykesville to do the states course.

If your department doesnt allow carry under LEOSA that's something to take up with them. Not to try and talk MSP into letting you qualify as an "active duty" law enforcement under their retired program.

swinokur · Oct 20, 2012

CypherPunk said:
Because its your inalienable right.

Because the supreme court ruled you have a right to self protection outside the home.

This is not yet settled.

Mr H · Oct 20, 2012

CypherPunk said:
Because its your inalienable right.

Because the people who founded this country did so under the provision that the right shall not be infringed.

Because the supreme court ruled you have a right to self protection outside the home.

Because the Maryland State Police, by their own actions, lack the moral authority to judge you.

Because the State Police take an oath to uphold the Constitution...

Shall I go on?

Careful... you're making sense again.

Merlin · Oct 20, 2012

mr h said:
Careful... you're making sense again.

Only if it mattered as often as we would like

ThatGuy179 · Oct 22, 2012

I just had my interview this morning. The trooper had asked me if i had taken the test they supposedly have on the MSP web site. And also mentioned if i had qualified with the weapons i planned on carrying. I have not heard of the test or qualifying. I had askes if it was a new requirement and he answered NO. Has anyone else been asked about this or is he just making things up as he goes along?

swinokur · Oct 22, 2012

I was asked what gun was I going to carry ans had I bought it yet. Nothing about qualifying.

Sounds like Bravo Sierra to me

ThatGuy179 · Oct 22, 2012

swinokur said:
I was asked what gun was I going to carry ans had I bought it yet. Nothing about qualifying.

Sounds like Bravo Sierra to me

Kind of what i was thinking but thought i ask here. I have also checked the MSP web site and found nothing about a test or a link of any kind, also used the search and came up with nothing.

swinokur · Oct 22, 2012

it sounds to me like these investigators can ask anything they feel like instead of a standard list of questions. I hope one of MSI's goals is to eliminate this kind of subjective crappola the MSP uses if they are asked for input on streamlining the process. I don't hold out much hope as I'm sure the GA will try most anything to slow down or delay the process after we win.

Sad.

Mr H · Oct 22, 2012

ThatGuy179 said:
I just had my interview this morning. The trooper had asked me if i had taken the test they supposedly have on the MSP web site. And also mentioned if i had qualified with the weapons i planned on carrying. I have not heard of the test or qualifying. I had askes if it was a new requirement and he answered NO. Has anyone else been asked about this or is he just making things up as he goes along?

I wonder if he was talking about the safety video?

ThatGuy179 · Oct 22, 2012

mr h said:
I wonder if he was talking about the safety video?

I had asked if it was the video but he said it was not. He said it was a test that was supposedly in the liscensing division section. I have not been able to locate it.

Name Taken · Oct 22, 2012

ThatGuy179 said:
I had asked if it was the video but he said it was not. He said it was a test that was supposedly in the liscensing division section. I have not been able to locate it.

I believe armed guards and some Maryland Special Police have to do a required qualifcation course...maybe that was his reference?

CypherPunk · Oct 22, 2012

Name Taken said:
I believe armed guards and some Maryland Special Police have to do a required qualifcation course...maybe that was his reference?

I think you are right.

The Trooper must have confused your application with the that of someone who is required to qualify with a firearm by taking a class from a MD State Police Certified Firearms Instructor.

PI's, security guards, etc. have to do this and it probably isn't applicable to you. However, you can do it if you want. It's basically the same as a Florida CCW class with a live fire and 80% accuracy requirement.

Just another example of the Maryland State Police's complete inability to effectively administer concealed handgun permit applications.

mrjam2jab · Oct 22, 2012

ThatGuy179 said:
I had asked if it was the video but he said it was not. He said it was a test that was supposedly in the liscensing division section. I have not been able to locate it.

I vaguely recall someone else being asked about this "test"....but I'm not looking back thru this thread to try and find it. :innocent0

Yoboney · Oct 24, 2012

I would actually want people to have some handgun instruction either by dd214 or class like Va has but they really don't need to interview anyone if we switch to shall issue.

MJD438 · Oct 26, 2012

I just got off of the phone with a Trooper from the Prince Frederick Barracks (amusing, since I am a pre-stay HoCo applicant). He advised that he was providing me with a courtesy update to advise that my application had been returned to the Licensing Division as not meeting any available criteria for interview or further processing.

He had more comments about pending law changes for citizen carry being expected in the upcoming GA session next year.

Guess the wait begins to see if this leads to a denial letter, or if it gets put back into the "wait and see what happens @ CA4" pile.

Mooseman · Oct 26, 2012

MJD438 said:
I just got off of the phone with a Trooper from the Prince Frederick Barracks (amusing, since I am a pre-stay HoCo applicant). He advised that he was providing me with a courtesy update to advise that my application had been returned to the Licensing Division as not meeting any available criteria for interview or further processing.

He had more comments about pending law changes for citizen carry being expected in the upcoming GA session next year.

Guess the wait begins to see if this leads to a denial letter, or if it gets put back into the "wait and see what happens @ CA4" pile.

That sound odd. Has anyone else received a similar phone call?

Hotrod Diesel · Oct 26, 2012

No, but I wish I would hear something...

MJD438 · Oct 26, 2012

Mooseman said:
That sound odd. Has anyone else received a similar phone call?

Just reporting my summary of the call. It sounded odd to me as well , but it's not like a have any leg to stand on at the moment due to the stay.

Md Handgun permit interview

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