CCW training requirement just might be here soon.

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status
    Not open for further replies.

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    Don't get me wrong - I agree with all of what you said and given the choice between what we currently have and a shall issue state with the training requirement, I would take the latter all day long.

    However, in the second case we are still allowing the government to make decisions on our behalf thinking they know what is best for us. They are portioning out rights provided under the constitution and they shouldn't be able to do so.

    Given MD's propensity to take a mile when given an inch, I am very much againt giving them even a millimeter.

    Agreed; but honestly we don't have the power to fight it. If we were like the gay marriage people and stacking hearings with hundreds of people, testifying, running the hearings on one bill till midnight, maybe.

    But when poor Glaug is the only one of 5,000 members to attend, the best we can do is try to steer the ship.
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    next update from him......


    Michael Smigiel


    The language I am proposing is as follows:

    "The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:

    1) Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition approved by the Department of State Police or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services or,

    2) Retirement from or current employment with a local, state federal police department or,

    3) Completion of a hunter safety course or,

    4) Completion of any firearms course approved by the Maryland Police Training Commission or,

    5) Possession of an out of State permit(s) to carry a concealed weapon which required completion of a safety course requirement or,

    6) Completion of another other nationally recognized training organization’s firearms safety course or,

    7) Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state or,

    8) Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement or,

    9) Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this state or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    7) Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state or,

    That right there would recognize the MD safety training required for purchasing a regulated firearm.
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    Wait a minute....

    Is Smigiel the only one pushing for a new training requirement? :confused:

    No he is not pushing for it at all. he is trying to keep it out of the MSP's hands. it got added to another bill. They say the state wanted it. I had an earlier post about it being added to an existing bill.
     

    Broadside

    Active Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    305
    Virginia
    7) Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state or,...

    I'm cool with this, but does Maryland have a Dept. of Criminal Justice Services?

    My first vote would be no training requirement, but I can live with what Smigiel is proposing. I don't like it, but I can live with it.

    Edit: It looks like Maryland has a Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services.
     

    ProShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2008
    4,189
    Richmond, Va
    One of the problems is FL Dept. of Agriculture who reviews apps doesn't tell anyone it is required. Jim Reynolds (proshooter) who owns Proactive Shooters is one of the UT instructors who does know the law and he even tells students who take his UT class he will provide live fire training for those who want to use their UT certificate to get FL. Some instructors who provide training certs for FL students aren't even aware of the statute. They risk liability if they provide a cert that the student got training but omitted live fire.

    here is the link to the statute


    Thank you, swinokur for mentioning us. I try to get the correct info out to my students. As you said (and lord knows I've said 1000 times), there are bunches of instructors out there signing certs and telling people to go apply for Florida, without the live fire. That's what happens in part, with some of these gun show commando instructors who are only interested in making a buck. Hell, we've got instructors running around teaching official NRA classes and not handing out NRA materials or NRA certificates....but I digress.

    There once was a time a few years ago when Florida didn't require live fire. I can't remember when it was, but I called down there in mid 2008 or 2009 and they said that the statute had changed requiring live fire.

    The problem comes in here; most people read what the application says and the just follow that. If you pay attention to the instructions though, it says that you have to complete the app, do the training, oh and you have to read Florida law 790. How many people actually read Florida law 790? Not many. That's where the live fire requirement comes up, law Florida law 790.06, which all applicants should have read.

    Ok, so let's set things straight now....

    Utah DOES NOT REQUIRE LIVE FIRE. You may take a classroom only course, which is known as the Weapons Familiarity Certification and that will suffice for applying to Utah. An instructor MAY add live fire is he so desires, and I only know one instructor in Va. who does that....most don't.

    Florida's DOES REQUIRE LIVE FIRE depending on which kind of training you use to apply. If you have a DD-214 for example, you can use that and do not have to do any additional live fire training. If you take the Utah class, or an NRA class that doesn't include live fire, like Home Firearm Safety, or any other gun safety class taught by an NRA certified instructor, then YES, YOU NEED TO DO LIVE FIRE.

    Not quite accurate, below is taken from the Fla Application. Proficiency does not always mean "Live Fire" as part of that. I now understand what you mean but many folks have a NRA or other basic firearms safety training certificate that meets the requirement but Live Fire was not part of it, nor does the rules say specifically "Live Fire". Again, not trying to be combative, but no where in the Fla rules does it specifically require live fire. My NRA class did not include live fire, I sent them a copy of that and my DD214 and had no issue and got my permit. In fact, alot of guys with DD214's never touched a gun and would meet the requirement as long as the got out with an honorable.

    If you sent them your NRA cert AND your DD-214, then you are fine. The DD-214 would suffice for the training without a need to additionally do live fire, since it is known that your basic training included firearms training.
     

    ThumperIII

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2009
    455
    Maryland
    No Smigielis not the one pushing for a training requirement. He is trying to steer the requirements to a reasonable conclusion over many much more stringent anti-gun proposals. Heseems to be the only one communicating what is happening and willing to take some direction on language ofd the new requirements.
     

    rambling_one

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    6,725
    Bowie, MD
    next update from him......


    Michael Smigiel


    The language I am proposing is as follows:

    "The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:

    1) Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition approved by the Department of State Police or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services or,

    2) Retirement from or current employment with a local, state federal police department or,

    3) Completion of a hunter safety course or,

    4) Completion of any firearms course approved by the Maryland Police Training Commission or,

    5) Possession of an out of State permit(s) to carry a concealed weapon which required completion of a safety course requirement or,

    6) Completion of another other nationally recognized training organization’s firearms safety course or,

    7) Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state or,

    8) Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement or,

    9) Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this state or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause.

    #9 dismisses all the political hacks and merchants who, it was suggested elsewhere, should be subject to a "universal" training requirement.
     

    csanc123

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2009
    4,155
    Montgomery County
    Very reasonable.

    next update from him......


    Michael Smigiel


    The language I am proposing is as follows:

    "The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:

    1) Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition approved by the Department of State Police or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services or,

    2) Retirement from or current employment with a local, state federal police department or,

    3) Completion of a hunter safety course or,

    4) Completion of any firearms course approved by the Maryland Police Training Commission or,

    5) Possession of an out of State permit(s) to carry a concealed weapon which required completion of a safety course requirement or,

    6) Completion of another other nationally recognized training organization’s firearms safety course or,

    7) Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state or,

    8) Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement or,

    9) Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this state or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    The MSP and GA want training.

    Smigiel is trying to keep them from saying:

    "training requirement can be fulfilled only on the 5th Tuesday of months ending in Urary when the moon is in a waxing crescent phase and Ash Wednesday falls on a Tuesday."

    In other words, creating a completely arbitrary training requirement to use in place of G&S.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,924
    Messages
    7,259,227
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom