NFA Trust acct: net worth needed (Patriot Act)

smdub · Nov 4, 2014

Hmm, Got both a call and email from M&T bank about my NFA trust account. I've had a couple large deposits & immediate withdrawals recently. Seems I've gotten someones attention and they now need more personal information. The nice lady explained due to the Patriot act she needed my source of income (employed, so she asked for employer) and net worth broken down into liabilities and assets. Now the ranges for net worth are really broad so Im not going to have to go to an accountant and figure it out to the penny but still have to go do some math and get back w/ them on the answers. Searching the web this seems typical for brokerages and banks to have to request. I simply thought the questions alone were 'interesting'. Im sure I automatically triggered what appears to be a (poorly run) money laundering scheme.

Yet one more 'list' Im on...

pilotguy299 · Nov 4, 2014

Just a guess, but someone may think you are smurfing.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuring

and

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/july/felon-farmers-law-criminalizes-legitimate-businesses/

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/archive/article_3ccaf8b9-3da1-5bcc-9334-91feb81a499e.html

Before providing anything to anyone, you may want to contact a lawyer. If you used one to draft the trust, that would be a good place to start.

smdub · Nov 4, 2014

LOL. I wasn't "smurfing" (haha, never heard it called that.) I deposited large checks including some over $10k singularly which I already knew triggered reporting. So not like I was trying to avoid it. What is probably most suspicious that I deposit money, sometimes from multiple accounts, and then write a check against it 2-3 days later as soon as they clears. I never leave much more than the required minimum in my trust account. Just fund it as needed.

Not sure its time to 'lawyer up' yet but good point to use the one that did my trust docs if it comes to that. Doing my research they all seem standard questions banks/brokerages are required to ask. *I* had just never been asked them before and was initially surprised. I just figured they wanted to verify my address/phone number or something. I immediately figured I triggered some sort of money laundering review.

pilotguy299 · Nov 4, 2014

Probably not a good idea to use a trust NFA account for anything other that is related to the NFA items that the trust owns.

Regardless, you would be better off talking to the Attorney before giving the bank any information.

HT4 · Nov 4, 2014

pilotguy299 said:
Probably not a good idea to use a trust NFA account for anything other that is related to the NFA items that the trust owns.

What makes you think that he did? I do the same thing... transfer money into my account when it is time to pay for an NFA item, then immediately pay the money out. There are NFA items costing tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can see how this behavior may trigger alarm bells at the bank.

rob-cubed · Nov 4, 2014

I suppose it's only a matter of time before I get the same call!

Yes, this is pretty standard for a bank... any withdrawals or transfers over $10K trigger additional reporting. The fact that's it's on a trust account probably moreso.

smdub · Nov 4, 2014

Yeah, all Im buying w/ the trust are NFA items (surprisingly appropriate emoticon ->) :gun1:

Bald Fat Guy · Nov 4, 2014

If you are buying enough NFA to trigger money laundering investagations, we're jealous.

IMBLITZVT · Nov 4, 2014

Stuff like this makes me want to go back to cash only. I had paypal starting in on me once when I was selling off a bunch to fund the M16 and other guns Pre-SB281. I just ignored them and it went away.

I am really starting to see why people were posting MG for sale for $xxx or Gold. There is a freedom in cash/gold that can't be duplicated.

Seems to me they are being more and more interested in things that use to not even appear on the radar. Anyone seeing whats going on with ITAR lately? Crazy Lacey Act crap...etc.

I just hate how you get the feeling you are somekind of criminal because your have non-PC hobby.

Chris · Nov 4, 2014

Also sounds like you need a bank that will listen to you. I have had problems with Bank of America over deposits and withdraws from our check cashing account (larger sums of money in and out quickly). I closed the account and went to Susquehanna Bank, they listened to what I do and set me up. Been happy since. M&T has been giving firearms dealers problems with BS plus giving notice stating they were going to close some accounts. Chris

Half-cocked · Nov 4, 2014

You know, we could do away with all of this nonsense, if there was just a law that made it so only government-approved people were permitted to buy and sell things.... maybe by giving them some sort of special mark....

smdub · Nov 4, 2014

IMBLITZVT said:
Anyone seeing whats going on with ITAR lately? Crazy Lacey Act crap...etc.

No. Link?

I think some folks ask for cash/gold because of the long term appreciation and want to avoid taxes.

rob-cubed · Nov 4, 2014

smdub said:
I think some folks ask for cash/gold because of the long term appreciation and want to avoid taxes.

This also avoids having to rely on the banking system or a third party payment service like PayPal or a USPS MO. The more these various vendors are "encouraged" by the gubmint to deny 2A-related transactions, the more sense I see in circumventing those systems entirely.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...llers-say-high-risk-label-from-feds/?page=all

NFA Trust acct: net worth needed (Patriot Act)

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