SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20120309/NEWS01/203090313


QUOTE:
While the ruling is appealed, Maryland State Police, the agency that processes permit applications, will not make decisions on applications in which approval rests solely on that clause, spokesman Greg Shipley said.
END QUOTE



So.... since they are denying a court-upheld civil right, what courses of action are now available?

As I see it, once the Civil Rights Act was passed, it would have been illegal to stop registering voters. (Apples and Oranges, I suppose)

Boxcab said:

Gray,

Thanks for jumping in with the help. I have not seen your form, but is there any reason that the MSP would see your form as "not" being theirs and so unacceptable? I'm sure any reasonable person would say it is good to go, just concerned about how the MSP might see it.

Click to expand...

It would be the same as if I filled out the form using a typewriter (remember those?)

G/S was arbitrary to begin with...what are they going to base their decisions on now?

I guess on occupation? Leo-yes. Security guard-yes All others-no. ?????

JMangle said:

http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20120309/NEWS01/203090313


QUOTE:
While the ruling is appealed, Maryland State Police, the agency that processes permit applications, will not make decisions on applications in which approval rests solely on that clause, spokesman Greg Shipley said.
END QUOTE



So.... since they are denying a court-upheld civil right, what courses of action are now available?

As I see it, once the Civil Rights Act was passed, it would have been illegal to stop registering voters. (Apples and Oranges, I suppose)

Click to expand...

I don't think we want to be perceived as antagonistic in our dealings with MSP or anyone in State Govt. ie. AAG's etc.

Let's just take the high road no matter our feelings or how we've been treated and viewed as serfs by the Govt.

I think we're getting close to a good outcome.

JMangle said:

http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20120309/NEWS01/203090313


QUOTE:
While the ruling is appealed, Maryland State Police, the agency that processes permit applications, will not make decisions on applications in which approval rests solely on that clause, spokesman Greg Shipley said.
END QUOTE



So.... since they are denying a court-upheld civil right, what courses of action are now available?

As I see it, once the Civil Rights Act was passed, it would have been illegal to stop registering voters. (Apples and Oranges, I suppose)

Click to expand...

It is illegal and it's disgusting that our own State government can't follow their own laws that we have to seek remedy via Federal courts. It will happen but at a snails pace as this works it's way through the federal court system.

This will be a follow up suit by MSI or Gura I would imagine. We'll see what happens to Mr. Woollard first if they give him his permit now. They won't and SAF will continue that case. We will be in their wake until the Federal court forces MD to comply with 2nd and 14th amendments.

I'm reconsidering applying now knowing that MD isn't going to process this and it could be months before a follow up suit is resolved.

Don't worry -- I am always very civil with our civil servants. I try to take the tone of "I'm a citizen who has researched this topic and am kindly asking for your input. I also am concerned of the rights of my fellow citizens to protect themselves."

I emailed Assistant Attorney General Bowen the following:

QUOTE:
Mr. Bowen,

I read in the news (Delmarva Now) that the Maryland State Police have been instructed not to process permit applications while the ruling is appealed. And I quote:

"While the ruling is appealed, Maryland State Police, the agency that processes permit applications, will not make decisions on applications in which approval rests solely on that clause, spokesman Greg Shipley said."

My question is this, Judge Legg ruled quite clearly that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental Right -- how can the Maryland State Police legally be instructed to infringe upon that right by stalling the permitting process? Is this not a civil rights violation?

I could understand delaying the permitting process if a stay was granted, but a stay has NOT been granted.

Thank you so much for your time and clarification.

Regards,

ENDQUOTE

To which he responded (quite quickly):

QUOTE:
Dear Mr. Mangle,



It is not my understanding that the State Police is refusing to accept or process any application to obtain a handgun carry permit. If you have questions concerning the handgun permit process, you should contact the Licensing Division of the Maryland State Police.



Mark H. Bowen

Assistant Attorney General

END QUOTE

I then replied
QUOTE:
Thank you very much for your timely response.

Unfortunately the Licensing Division has not responded to my two emails. I contacted them via telephone and was kindly asked to email them the question.

I appreciate you conveyance of information.

Regards,

END QUOTE




Analysis:

I hate it when people say, "It is my understanding," because they are basically saying, "I have no idea, and I can't be held accountable for what I'm saying." -- Either way, it is nice to have the glimmer of hope that MSP is still going to be reviewing permits in the Post-Woollard world.

(Or as I like to call it Woollard War I).

Also -- I'm guessing you can tell it's been a slow week at work for me....

miss taylor is who I just talked to and she says msp isnt sure what they are going to do as of yet
but I can apply if I want to it is up to me
she offered no comment on sending in an application either way


she is not is not one of the two ladies I spoke to yesterday
I am stumped on what to do

rob b said:

miss taylor is who I just talked to and she says msp isnt sure what they are going to do as of yet
but I can apply if I want to it is up to me
she offered no comment on sending in an application either way


she is not is not one of the two ladies I spoke to yesterday
I am stumped on what to do

Click to expand...

I default to what the resident experts say, if you can afford to do it and not compromise your rent/mortgage payment and putting food on the table, then go for it.

martinithebun said:

So we all know the stay was coming but I can't find when the stay would be ruled on. Does anyone know?

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Entirely up to the district court judge. Plaintiffs will file a response on March 16. The judge can hold a hearing (hear argument) or not, in his discretion. He can issue a decision when he is good and ready. Normally, courts don't take a long time on stay motions and Rule 59(e) filings, but this is not a normal case. Note that if the state fails to get a stay from Judge Legg, they will then file a stay motion with the court of appeals and the briefing process starts over there.

i've waited this long - i will wait a little longer to see how this hashes out before applying.

Until MD changes it's law, nothing is going to change.
New suits will need to be filed against the state and the results will be the same....
I hope I'm wrong.

The positivity is just underwhelming.

rob b said:

miss taylor is who I just talked to and she says msp isnt sure what they are going to do as of yet

Click to expand...

Finally, one factual statement amidst all of the speculation.

MDresident said:

Until MD changes it's law, nothing is going to change.
New suits will need to be filed against the state and the results will be the same....
I hope I'm wrong.

Click to expand...

Why do we need a new suite? We just need to follow the appeals process.

swinokur said:

The positivity is just underwhelming.

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You said it!

What people are failing to realize is the the "G&S reason" is the only subjective filter the MSP can rely on to keep the serfs in line.

Without G&S the MSP has to rely on cold hard facts.

kohburn said:

i've waited this long - i will wait a little longer to see how this hashes out before applying.

Click to expand...

The principal reason to apply now, while this is being hashed out, is to demonstrate political support to the GA and push on the MSP. The message is: "This is my civil right. It is important to me. Please don't deny it." (The political scientists call it "salience") The state is not likely to grant your application solely on the basis of Woollard if they get a stay (or are still asking for one) until that case plays out in the appellate process. If they fail to get a stay, then they have a very big practical problem. If you were the MSP and had 50,000 applications dumped in your lap and you were charged with investigating *all* of them under the current procedures, you would go screaming to the GA for relief. Delegates and Senators would sit up and take notice. 50,000 voters are a lot. The cost alone under the current process would be prohibitive. Just MHO.

^




The Maryland State Police rely on facts?


ohhh noooooos

Inigoes said:

You said it!

What people are failing to realize is the the "G&S reason" is the only subjective filter the MSP can rely on to keep the serfs in line.

Without G&S the MSP has to rely on cold hard facts.

Click to expand...

I'm still concerned about 5(i), the "propensity for violence blah blah public safety" clause, but even so, this is a fantastic win. Anybody who says otherwise can go share a quiche with Bloomberg while the patriots are busy cheering.

Where does everyone keep getting this 50,000 applications number?

gprimr1 said:

Why do we need a new suite? We just need to follow the appeals process.

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Quite right. If the Woollard judgment is affirmed on appeal to a final conclusion, the state will no longer be able to apply 5(ii), regardless of whether they change the law or not. I do not believe that the State of Maryland will defy a federal court judgment. That would be insanely stupid. This ain't Alabama in the '60s and the Governor is not George Wallace.