Krinkov Education

MrWhiteRabbit · Apr 4, 2010

A friend of mine raves about his Krinkov for home defense. I've never fired one, but am looking for opinions from the group. Is the 5.45 significantly different from 5.56 or 7.62 in terms of muzzle velocity, tumbling, and tissue damage?

HKB · Apr 4, 2010

I`d prefer a shotgun for home defense, JMO less chance of penetrating into the next room or your neighbors house down the street.

MrWhiteRabbit · Apr 4, 2010

That was my point, too, but he believes that the 5.45 will mushroom and stop where 00 buckshot will penetrate further (he says the first lead shot will open the drywall/door/etc for the following shot to follow through more-or-less unobstructed).

carryaglock · Apr 4, 2010

The chance of having collateral damage, (hitting someone friendly a few rooms or houses away), or the round making it to the great outdoors and dropping someone walking down the street lends its self to not using a rifle for HD. That is unless you’re home is under siege by an army of Zombies in which case I would suggest something a little more accurate than a krink. IMHO

SCARCQB · Apr 4, 2010

Any Reliable Carbine is great for home defense, if combined with good ammo.. As for the Krinkov, I would be reluctant to use it for HD as its shortened barrel results in reduced velocities that limits fragmentation of rifle rounds. This can result in over-penetration. 7.62x39 will remain intact and the 5.45 will tumble but not fragment reliably. This is a non-issue in many buildings/ houses/ structures overseas. ( made of concrete, adobe, mud, stone... not drywall) but is a concern here in the US. The Krinkov also suffers from overheating issues, muzzle blast/ noise and decreased accuracy beyond 150 yards. But it is one heck of a cool weapon.

If you want a SBR short rifle with that can outperform the Krinkov in CQB.. Look into the AUG platform. No tax stamp required, SBR short, fires a variety of 5.56 ammo. Retains velocity due to its longer barrel and is very accurate up to 500 yards.

For NFA... Look into the PS90 in SBR format. This is what I use for HD. Again, these views are from personal experience. Some folks may disagree with it.. they may chime in soon.

Rifles are effective and safe for HD when used with Certain Rounds that are designed for that purpose. ( Taps, Fragmenting, varmint HP etc). AKs do not have this assortment to select from. ( Unless your Krink is 5.56)

BeltBuckle · Apr 4, 2010

MrWhiteRabbit said:
(he says the first lead shot will open the drywall/door/etc for the following shot to follow through more-or-less unobstructed).

that is not what happens. your buddy could do with 5min googling on the topic. he'd come away with a new (and informed) perspective. eg http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

a search on this board would also reveal the topic has come up, and edification dispensed. http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=6804&highlight=buckshot+penetration or http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=9106&highlight=buckshot+penetration

rob-cubed · Apr 4, 2010

I'd prefer a shotgun or handgun. At across-the-room ranges, and especially with over-penetration dangers figured in, there are no significant advantages in a carbine.

The 5.45 round yaws but does not typically fragment like the 5.56. The velocity from a krink barrel is probably adequate to cause yawing; it is not designed to mushroom like a handgun bullet.

randyho · Apr 4, 2010

I like the little ak's.

A krink/suchka will give you 4 points of contact to the handgun's 2 or 1. And it does that in nearly as compact a package if you compare it to a weaver or isosceles. If you accept that you may not be at your best in any given hd situation (I do), hedging your bets and giving yourself the best chance at accuracy seems like a pretty good idea. And while it hasn't been commonplace here, yet, the group home invasion scenario leads me to think the more rounds w/o a reload, the better.

Overpenetration-wise, I've seen a lot of the drywall tests now, fortunately. And, #00, 9mm, and .45 tend to keep going and going well beyond what you might expect. .223 often seems to be the winner by bleeding off energy quickly. The trouble with 5.45 is that no one's made a round built to not tumble as it was originally intended (that I know of, at least). I think hornady's coming out with a tap round, and I think there will be a corbon dpx version out which may help, too.

Other issues with an sbr for hd is flash and noise. At night, the flash from an sbr is gonna be significant. In the dark your night vision might be toast after round 1. Your hearing certainly will be. Impaired vision and hearing are not what I want to be dealing with in an hd situation.

Lots of compromises and options, which makes this sorta discussion fun. For me, a sbr'd draco (budget suchka/krink) with a can and an aimpoint t1 on an ultimak rail, loaded with corbon dpx is about as good as it gets for a pdw, imho.

SCARCQB · Apr 4, 2010

Alternatives to the Krink? How about the short barrel AR15 and the FN PS90.

Personally, I have switched to the PS90 in SBR format as my primary HD gun. 50 round mag , minimal recoil and blast, accurate and easy to handle. While it may be weaker than the 5.56 round, the 5.7 x28 is optimized to get the maximum velocity and performance out of a short barrel. The PS90 SBR also allows you to engage targets from CQB to 200 meters. Some ammo loads can also defeat CRISAT body armor.

Markp · Apr 4, 2010

The 5.45 is a decent little round. I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a defense round, it's a bit less powerful than .223 or 7.62x39.

Is it an optimal home defense round, perhaps not, but as an overall general purpose round I think it's not bad. It's biggest problem is transferring energy to the target, because likely at close range it will over penetrate.

Mark

smores · Apr 4, 2010

SCARCQB said:
Any Reliable Carbine is great for home defense, if combined with good ammo..

2 of my favorite weapons in one pic... I'd take either one. Yeah the size with the stock out is similar but an AK-74 of any type with a sidefolding stock is the sex. I've got one on my Arsenal SLR-106FR.

I have no qualms using a rifle for self defense in a house with thick walls, or single family. In the place I'm in now, you think someone is walking down the stairs if the neighbors are walking on their own stairs. If you turn the light off in the bathroom and open the medicine cabinet/mirror you can see cracks of light shining through. I have a paranoid delusion that I'll be involved in a situation such as in the Matrix when Morpheus crashes through the wall to fight Agent Smith... :ninja:

So I use a pistol...

mrozowjj · Apr 5, 2010

If I had an AUG that's what I'd go with. The shotgun might penetrate less with the right loading but you only have 8 shots and contrary to popular belief on television and movies you do in fact have to aim a shotgun, and racking the pump is not enough to make the robber wet himself.

mudskipper · Apr 5, 2010

Have any of you guys ever fired an unsuppressed, short barreled, rifle-caliber firearm in a closed room or hallway without ear protection?

You're going to get permanent hearing damage with the first round. Maybe even a ruptured ear drum...

IlikeNFA · Apr 6, 2010

Have any of you guys ever fired an unsuppressed, short barreled, rifle-caliber firearm in a closed room or hallway without ear protection?

You're going to get permanent hearing damage with the first round. Maybe even a ruptured ear drum...

True, but would you rather die or live with some hearing damage?

HonestFool03 · Apr 6, 2010

IlikeNFA said:
True, but would you rather die or live with some hearing damage?

I'd rather defend myself with a pistol, and live with no hearing damage

hell if we're opening up the Kirnkov bag of worms....

to own one would require a tax stamp for the SBR

while your at it, why not get a tax stamp for a suppressor, shoot all you require in your house in a HD situation, and not need to worry about your ears

mikec · Apr 6, 2010

HonestFool03 said:
I'd rather defend myself with a pistol, and live with no hearing damage

hell if we're opening up the Kirnkov bag of worms....

to own one would require a tax stamp for the SBR

while your at it, why not get a tax stamp for a suppressor, shoot all you require in your house in a HD situation, and not need to worry about your ears

Fire any unsuppressed handgun indoors and you will suffer hearing damage. Heck, fire a handgun outdoors and you will suffer damage. Will it be as bad as a rifle shot, no, but you will damage your hearing. This goes for .22 rimfire as well.

JCB003 · Apr 6, 2010

My AKS-74U...not sure about home defense but it's cool as hell.

IlikeNFA · Apr 7, 2010

Fire any unsuppressed handgun indoors and you will suffer hearing damage.

Bingo. Your mileage may vary.

Beautiful krink JCB!

Kevp · Apr 7, 2010

I will chime in SCAR- I don't think it is wise to use a NFA weapon for home defense. First, your investment or collectible (that is what you are saying on the Form 1 or 4) will end up in an evidence locker if you do use it. Second, you open yourself up to lots of legal implications. Some will argue the latter, but why even take the chance? To be cool? A Mossberg 500 in the evidence locker is no big deal, but a $2,000 Krink SBR hurts and who knows how much more you might pay in legal fees trying to get it out or you out of trouble....and you might not be successful. There are lots of scumbag attorneys out there that would jump all over your SBRed PS90 with a 50 rd mag. They would make you out to be a nut in the press and the courtroom.

Remember the dude that set-up the ambush at his business in Baltimore a couple years ago? I know him. He didn't go to jail, but his life was turned upside down and he still hasn't recovered. I almost answered that shed break-in thread a couple weeks ago when someone talked about staking the place out. There are lots of suggestions on this board that are very unwise....but what do I know? The $hithouse lawyers (none of whom have a law degree or have passed the BAR) may now commence.

randyho · Apr 7, 2010

Kevp said:
but why even take the chance? To be cool?

Or, maybe, to defend yourself w/o your errant #00 flying through your neighbor's house while giving yourself a better chance to successfully accomplish your hd mission w/o f'ing yourself up?

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