9mm or .223 for pistol build

Waz · Aug 21, 2014

i started building 2 9mm ar's, one carbine and one pistol....

now i'm reconsidering my caliber choice. i originally went with the 9mm instead of .223/5.56 because i've already got a bunch of it and i thought the ammo was cheaper. a recent google search showed me that they're actually about the same price per round (give or take a penny) if i don't mind shooting steel cased stuff.

i've got a 10.5" and a 16" 9mm barrel and one set of other 9mm ar parts (BCG, magwell adapter, buffer etc)

do i build a 9mm carbine and a 5.56 pistol, or a 9mm pistol and a 5.56 carbine? or should i just stick with 2 9mm ar's?

what are the pros/cons of either... both would be used recreationally and potential HD... pistol for HD (narrow hallways)

1time · Aug 21, 2014

A 9mm carbine is a more accurate pistol, so base you needs on 9mm and 5.56 on whether you believe a rifle or pistol caliber is better for home defense. If you plan to suppress it and either reload or buy 147 grain 9mm ammo, I will guarantee the 9mm pistol will be more fun. I have a 9mm and 5.56 SBR, both suppressed. I like both of them a lot but I can't help but grin while shooting the 9mm. It's quiet and more accurate than I expected. Also, the velocity of a 9mm round out of a 10" barrel will still be in the range the bullets are designed to work. A 11.5 or 10.5 5.56 barrel loses a lot of velocity. My 11.5 shoots 55 grain xm193 at 2500 fps give or take.

erwos · Aug 21, 2014

If you're building a 9mm pistol, I'd really suggest going as short as you can on the barrel - like 5.5" or less.

Waz · Aug 21, 2014

erwos said:
If you're building a 9mm pistol, I'd really suggest going as short as you can on the barrel - like 5.5" or less.

why the shorter barrel?

i've already got the 10.5", but if it's worth it to change...

erwos · Aug 21, 2014

Because, if it's a pistol, you want that thing to be as compact and lightweight as possible. You're already going to take a bit of a weight hit with a proper 9mm buffer.

1time · Aug 21, 2014

My SBR 9mm has a 5" barrel. Even with a TiRant is is short. You are also not giving up any(much?) velocity.

CrawfishStu · Aug 21, 2014

9mm. You can still shoot it at just about any range.
If you are planning on an SBR, you should see what engage is up to if you plan on putting a real stock on it as opposed to a sig brake or similar. Right now the ATF is disapproving applications that have an OAL under 29". Making a super short SBR right now is not possible. That might change and therefore may change the barrel size you plan on using.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=158562

Biggfoot44 · Aug 21, 2014

I am very tempted to give a shrug and a *whatever* within a binary choice of 9mm and .223 . ..

Within the parameters that cheap plinking ammo is important, and I've been on record multipe occasions that a 9mm carbine is useful , and far surperior to harsh words, and OP has 9mm build parts on hand , then I can't critize him for going ahead with two 9mm.

That said : The idea of firing a 10.5in .223 not just indoors , but in a tight hallway w/o ear protection makes me shiver in dread. I LIKE AR pistols. ( Other than simply making a statement ) they are the tacticool semiauto equiv of T/C Contenders , XP-100's , etc. Not a rifle , not a belt gun , but interesting on their own merits.

Now if we were to change the parameters of the OP's debate to somthing like : What is the *best-est* , most effective thing to do with two unrestricted AR lower recievers, the debate would be a lot different.

Maybe , I'm not visualizing what the OP is wanting to say , but to me his narrow hallway defernse gun , would be best served by a belt gun vs any AR based varient. ( Don't flame me about AR's for HD generally , the OP brought up Hallways so small that a 10.5in AR was unweildy. I don't live in his house , so I'll defer .)

Moving on to the wider scope, there are a bunch of options that are suited to shorter bbls , and more potent that 9mm , OR .223 . Not counting wildcats , 6.5Grendel, 6.8SPC, .300 Whisper/ Blackout/ whatever Bill Wilson calls his version, etc , 7.62x39 , and the various big and really big bores. Of those 7.62x39 the ammo is cheapest if sticking to that criteria , but the mags are more problematic.

Pinecone · Aug 22, 2014

If I wanted to build a 9mm AR, I would get down to 2A or another dealer with 9mm lowers.

Cash and carry, and build a dedicated 9mm rifle or pistol. For 9mm, I would probably SBR it.

In an unrestricted lower, I would do either .223 or on of the others mentioned. To me, .300 Blackout and 6.5 Grendal stand out. For HD use, .300 Blackout with a suppressor makes a LOT of sense.

Waz · Aug 22, 2014

Biggfoot44 said:
Moving on to the wider scope, there are a bunch of options that are suited to shorter bbls , and more potent that 9mm , OR .223 . Not counting wildcats , 6.5Grendel, 6.8SPC, .300 Whisper/ Blackout/ whatever Bill Wilson calls his version, etc , 7.62x39 , and the various big and really big bores. Of those 7.62x39 the ammo is cheapest if sticking to that criteria , but the mags are more problematic.

i do like the 7.62x39 round A LOT. its cheap and makes a loud bang! :party29:

i have a vz58, an sks and i'm in the process of getting an AK pistol. my first AR was in that caliber. i sold the upper and mags because i just prefer the vz and liked the idea of building a 9mm AR. then lowers became available again, i picked one up thinking an AR pistol w/ sig brace would be pretty sweet. :thumbsup:

i appreciate all the feedback i've gotten so far! i'm moving forward with the 9mm AR pistol, but i'm still undecided on the rifle caliber.

thanks!

Wayne1one · Aug 22, 2014

CrawfishStu said:
9mm. You can still shoot it at just about any range.
If you are planning on an SBR, you should see what engage is up to if you plan on putting a real stock on it as opposed to a sig brake or similar. Right now the ATF is disapproving applications that have an OAL under 29". Making a super short SBR right now is not possible. That might change and therefore may change the barrel size you plan on using.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=158562

This is definitely something to consider, will you ever want to turn your pistol into an SBR in the future, I am doing just that. I chose a 8.5" barrel, but I will have to pin a vortex 9mm flash hider onto the barrel and use a ACS-L Stock (I found this stock to be longer than my CTR, B5 SOPMOD & Bravo, and my Vltor IMOD) to reach the 29" mark to SBR my pistol. But shorter than that you are gonna be screwed.

Waz · Aug 23, 2014

Pistol build complete!

Bertfish · Aug 23, 2014

Waz said:
Pistol build complete!

Nice looking rifle but I have a few questions for you

1. Isn't putting an AFG on a pistol a no-no? I recall reading that on here before.

2. That doesn't appear to be a 9mm dedicated upper which I thought was required for 9mm builds. I've considered a 9mm pistol as of late and would be curious about your build specs for this set up

I'll be watching this thread a bit. Been wanting to do a pistol build for a while now

clandestine · Aug 23, 2014

The Magpul Angled Forward Grip was ATF Approved for pistol applications. I would venture to say that the grip shown is ok under that ruling. Furthermore a Vertical Grip is ok to install if the Firearm is over 26" in overall length.

A regular AR Upper Receiver will work on a 9mm build. Forward Assists, and M4 Ramps are not utilized on a 9mm though. It is wise to install a short 9mm Dust Cover and Port Deflector as they deflect gas away from the shooter. The GOOD part about using a standard Upper Receiver is they allow a roll pin to be installed in the gas Tube Hole in the Upper Receiver. This allows the Barrel nut to be "locked" into place. a Regular 9mm Upper Receiver does NOT have that provision which can lead to the Barrel Nut loosening under fire AND if a FVG is installed and counter clockwise torque is applied to the grip is can cause the barrel nut or rail to loosen.

Bertfish · Aug 23, 2014

clandestine said:
The Magpul Angled Forward Grip was ATF Approved for pistol applications. I would venture to say that the grip shown is ok under that ruling. Furthermore a Vertical Grip is ok to install if the Firearm is over 26" in overall length.

A regular AR Upper Receiver will work on a 9mm build. Forward Assists, and M4 Ramps are not utilized on a 9mm though. It is wise to install a short 9mm Dust Cover and Port Deflector as they deflect gas away from the shooter. The GOOD part about using a standard Upper Receiver is they allow a roll pin to be installed in the gas Tube Hole in the Upper Receiver. This allows the Barrel nut to be "locked" into place. a Regular 9mm Upper Receiver does NOT have that provision which can lead to the Barrel Nut loosening under fire AND if a FVG is installed and counter clockwise torque is applied to the grip is can cause the barrel nut or rail to loosen.

It's like you know when I have an AR question :lol2:

I was just looking at the lightweight Anderson uppers that Aim Surplus has for $40 and thinking about how they'd be nice for a 9mm pistol build

clandestine · Aug 23, 2014

Bertfish said:
It's like you know when I have an AR question

I was just looking at the lightweight Anderson uppers that Aim Surplus has for $40 and thinking about how they'd be nice for a 9mm pistol build

Glad to be your stalker. :lol2:

If their model has a F.A. then you can install a blank forward assist plug. The factory shell deflector is no big deal. The M4 Ramps bother some people visually but they don't interfere with feeding as the 9mm barrels feed MUCH higher up in the gun.

Waz · Aug 24, 2014

Bertfish said:
2. That doesn't appear to be a 9mm dedicated upper which I thought was required for 9mm builds. I've considered a 9mm pistol as of late and would be curious about your build specs for this set up

I'm YouTube educated on building ARs so I wouldn't be surprised if I misinterpreted a requirement as a recommendation or vice versa.

From my limited understanding the 9mm AR only requires;

Magwell adapter or dedicated lower
Mags
Barrel
Bolt carrier
Hammer (unless using a CMMG ramped bolt carrier that allows standard hammer)

Highly recommended parts are;

9mm buffer
9mm upper receiver
Shell deflector and short dust cover
Bolt catch

I'm using

aero precision smooth side upper receiver
10.5" yanke hill barrel
rock hill 9mm buffer
Aero precision pistol buffer tube
PSA lower parts kit
Promag magwell adapter

It cycles dummy rounds just fine but I'm regretting going cheap with the magwell adapter. The promag's kind of flimsy and gave me problems while installing. It was super snug inside the magwell and the walls bowed inward a little bit. I needed to slap the mags in for the walls to go back flush.

Bertfish · Aug 24, 2014

clandestine said:
Glad to be your stalker.

If their model has a F.A. then you can install a blank forward assist plug. The factory shell deflector is no big deal. The M4 Ramps bother some people visually but they don't interfere with feeding as the 9mm barrels feed MUCH higher up in the gun.

And the feed ramps are actually part of the barrel, correct?

Waz said:
I'm YouTube educated on building ARs so I wouldn't be surprised if I misinterpreted a requirement as a recommendation or vice versa.

From my limited understanding the 9mm AR only requires;

Magwell adapter or dedicated lower
Mags
Barrel
Bolt carrier
Hammer (unless using a CMMG ramped bolt carrier that allows standard hammer)

Highly recommended parts are;

9mm buffer
9mm upper receiver
Shell deflector and short dust cover
Bolt catch

I'm using

aero precision smooth side upper receiver
10.5" yanke hill barrel
rock hill 9mm buffer
Aero precision pistol buffer tube
PSA lower parts kit
Promag magwell adapter

It cycles dummy rounds just fine but I'm regretting going cheap with the magwell adapter. The promag's kind of flimsy and gave me problems while installing. It was super snug inside the magwell and the walls bowed inward a little bit. I needed to slap the mags in for the walls to go back flush.

That's the kind of information I need, thanks boss

9mm or .223 for pistol build

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