9 mm Carbines

Hi-
Just wanted to see what your opinion is of 9 mm long guns and which kind you reccomend thats still legal in Maryland? First off im not into handguns nor do I own any or plan to own any, so ammo or magazine interchangeability with a handgun does not factor in here. But ive been flirting with idea of a 9 mm long gun for awhile now. I own semi autos in .308, .223/5.56, 12 gauge, a M1 Carbine in .30 Carbine, and several in .22 LR of course. 9 mm would be like a .22 on steroids but under the power of 5.56. Just something different. Semi auto varients of the MP5 or a UZI comes to mind, but theyre a no go in Maryland now. I wanted a semi-auto UZI with a fixed wood stock, but nope not now.

That leaves me with the AR platform, which I think I could still build with a dedicated 9 mm lower. But, I hate the look of a 5.56 magwell with a skinny little 9 mm magazine. Double Diamond lowers solve this by making the AR look more like a MP5 version of the AR , but are extremely expensive and hard to get. Then theres the Keltec SUB-2000. Hard to get, but I honestly cant warm up to one. Too pistol like to me. Theres the Beretta CX4 Storm, which could be a winner but are expensive and being used to rifles Im used (and prefer) to inserting the mag into the center of the gun rather than up the pistol grip. Magazine capacity is also a question. ......im not fond of high capacity mags sticking out of a grip as well. Then theres the Hi Point Carbine with the new stocks. This could be the winner for me due to the price. But I cant get past the fact that the highest capacity "usable" magazine for these is 10 rounds. Id like to have something I could go over the state line and buy some hi cap mags for like 20 or 30 rounds. I guess I could just buy double the amount of mags. Also they have a grip mounted magazine and have the reputation of a "non gun person's" gun. The price is so tempting though. Then theres the Suomi M31 or the PPS-43 9 mm conversion, which would be ideal for me being a old military rifle collector. But I dont see the Suomi's for sale anymore. And the PPS-43s out there are pistol version. Im surprised they havent made a 922-R rifle version of the PPS-43 with a 16" barrel like they did the Suomi. It would be cool to own a semi auto copy of a sub machine gun though. Whatever I get would be for informal plinking and range use at distance.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

You might check out either the TNW Aero survival rifle. Its main selling point is a take own pistol caliber carbine. Pretty cool, I am interested in these.
http://www.tnwfirearms.com/product-p/asrx-cplt-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx.htm

Otherwise Hipoint Pistol caliber carbines are still available if you want the cheaper end.
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/Hi-Point-carbines/9MM_carbine.html

Will do. I guess a Hi Point could be jazzed up. And would be a good first Duracoating project, which could take away alot of its uglyness. Still its a shame that the highest mag capacity is 10 rounds. But ive heard they are usually uber reliable and durable regardless of the subpar materials used to make it. More reliable and durable than the SUB 2000 ive heard. Only thing that all the others have is the ability to accept as high as 33 round mags.

Someone is making Suomi clones again. I keep seeing them in someones ads/magazines I keep getting but can't remember who now. They are $400-500 ish. I've seen more than one at the Chantilly show too.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=suomi+m31

Dunno if a high point is more reliable than a sub2k. I have the latter w/ glock mags and it never skips a beat. The thing is dead simple - like a tube gun machine gun. Glock 33rd mags are fun

Edit: Found it. Centerfire Systems is the only always sending me emails w/ the Suomis on sale. They've advertised them as low as $399 this year but are listed at $499 now.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/rifle-suomi.aspx

CMMG dedicated 9mm lower takes Colt pattern mags. Check it out.

The kel-tec sub2k is fun, but it feels very cheap. The sights are "meh", and the various aftermarket rotating rails and gadgets are a bit mall-ninja to rely on for anything but plinking. The CX-4 is far better, with solid plastic, rails, etc. I'd get one if I had to do-over.

I have no doubt that you'd warm up to the magazine-in-grip. As Uziel Gal said, "hand finds hand".

The other huge advantage to magazine-in-grip is that the overall length of the rifle is far shorter with the necessary 16" barrel.

If I was going AR-pattern, I'd do a pistol with a SIG brace.

If I just overlooked it mentioned, sorry, but:

There is also the Just Right Carbine. I have one in 9mm and I really like it.

I have a cheap red dot on it, and I'm able to get 3" groups offhand at 25 yards on my first outing.

They also have caliber change kits and for the 9mm they take Glock mags, which means you can get the 32 rounders. (Out of state of course.)

Beretta CX4 Storm may be worth a look also.

If money weren't an issue, I'd take a nice 9mm AR any day of the week.

All things equal, I think a Hi-Point 995 is your best bang for the buck. My SN is 4095fanatic as my first gun was a 4095 and I still have it. Still love shooting it too, even as it approaches the decade mark. 995 is a wee bit cheaper to shoot though.

If you can find one for a decent price, the Kel-Tec Sub2000 isn't bad either.

I don't have a problem with the JRCs, but for the $ I'd rather just spend a few extra and get a 9mm AR that take GLOCK mags (though for you this isn't as issue as you said you didn't care about magazine compatibility).

I've been toying with the idea of a pistol caliber carbine for home defense for a little while but there isn't much out there that seems legal for MD, reliable, and looks good. I hate how 9 mm conversions look in AR lowers except for the DDLES that looks made for it. If you are willing to wait a while and can afford it what about the Sig MPX that is "supposed" to be released in the fall.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/01/sig-sauer-mpx/

I've been following it for a little while now, they were originally supposed to release a non-NFA rifle model called the MPX-C for civilians that had a short barrel and permanently attached muzzle brake that made the barrel 16 inches and could later but turned into a suppressor if you went the NFA route and bought a sleeve that fit over the brake from Sig. However, the ATF ruled the brake a suppressor component which seemed to put a hold on everything. Now it looks like the first version to be released will be a pistol version with a short barrel that can also accept the Sig pistol brace making it a fun looking sub gun in 9 mm that you could interchange to .40 and .357 sig later if you wanted. Apparently the ATF decision on the C model is being reviewed and if approved this time it could be released as a rifle and with a real stock. Either way, the MPX is going to be a wait and expensive but it sure looks cool.

I want a sub2k with glock mags.

Ender said:

I've been toying with the idea of a pistol caliber carbine for home defense for a little while but there isn't much out there that seems legal for MD, reliable, and looks good. I hate how 9 mm conversions look in AR lowers except for the DDLES that looks made for it. If you are willing to wait a while and can afford it what about the Sig MPX that is "supposed" to be released in the fall.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/01/sig-sauer-mpx/

I've been following it for a little while now, they were originally supposed to release a non-NFA rifle model called the MPX-C for civilians that had a short barrel and permanently attached muzzle brake that made the barrel 16 inches and could later but turned into a suppressor if you went the NFA route and bought a sleeve that fit over the brake from Sig. However, the ATF ruled the brake a suppressor component which seemed to put a hold on everything. Now it looks like the first version to be released will be a pistol version with a short barrel that can also accept the Sig pistol brace making it a fun looking sub gun in 9 mm that you could interchange to .40 and .357 sig later if you wanted. Apparently the ATF decision on the C model is being reviewed and if approved this time it could be released as a rifle and with a real stock. Either way, the MPX is going to be a wait and expensive but it sure looks cool.

Click to expand...

I agree that AR pistols aren't "pretty", but I'm leaning towards a CNMG 9mm lower as my next purchase.

7" barrel with a Sig brace, perfect size and control for my wife, and no tax stamps needed (until I put a suppressor on it.)

Look around for a used Ruger PC9. I have one and like it a lot. Takes ruger "P series" mags. Accurate enough and feels like a slightly heavier 10/22

El Patron Grande says:

I used to own a Ruger PC9 when I also owned a Ruger P95. But I sold the P95 when I upgraded to the SR9, and because of the SR9 mags were not compatible with the PC9, I got rid of it too.

Miss that carbine. Lots and lots of fun. Great shooter up to 100yds. Great home-defense option and SHTF carbine.

Plenty in the used market, and I highly recommend it.....except the whole P95 mag issue is a turn off.

I wish they brought the PC9 back with SR9 mags, I'd jump on it in a jiffy.

El Patron Grande is sad!

Options I personally like:
1. MP5 SBR: you'll need a slightly longer than normal SBR barrel, but you should be able to keep it reasonably compact anyways.
2. 9mm AR-15: good options here in both Glock and Colt mags, plus it's unregulated. Can be slightly finicky to get running 100%.
3. Beretta CX4 Storm: good high-cap factory mags, albeit a little bulkier than I prefer. (Also in actual military use!)
4. Sig MPX-C: now that it seems like the BATFE is backing off on their initial ruling, I think the MPX-C is going to be hugely popular in MD, except for the high pricing.
5. Nite Scout CFL: Rifle based on the LUSA. Takes unmodified Uzi mags. Vaguely MP5-looking, but uses direct blowback.

Honestly, the market under ~$600 devolves into "feels like cheap plastic". That doesn't make the guns unusable or even a bad deal, but I do feel like they've got significant flaws that will leave you wanting for more. *shrugs*

Everything firearm that was mentioned in this thread are good options and recommendations. I own or owned at one time or another every 9mm carbine out there. But my personal preference and go to is my 9mm AR that I built. See my member photo library. Can't miss it, it's Zombie Green... of course in progress in building a 9mm AR pistol with Sig Brace here in the next week or two. And yes dedicated 9mm ARs are legal in MD.
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This is kinda' badass...
http://www.legacysports.com/m-1-9mm-carbine

9mm M1 that awesome. Thought the 22 were cool that just sick dude. Wonder how it shoots...

I don't know, but it's definitely high on the list. $699, 18" barrel and Beretta 92f mags.

The 9mm AR-15 does look silly but damn its fun. Parts and add-on's if thats your thing are not an issue. To date I have had zero issues with mine in the reliability dept.