A warning on carrying spring-assisted knives.

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  • clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    clan that is mean.... thus you are a meanie

    with a threat 3 holster.... good luck

    Worlds Dumbest Criminals is my favorite Sport to watch. Nothing like watching a LEO club idiots like baby seals. :D
     

    haoleboy

    1/2 Banned
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 17, 2005
    4,085
    Dentsville
    You like to push buttons, I can tell by how you type. Your also the type that will one day push the wrong persons buttons and be in a shitstorm of hurt. If you wanna be a lawyer go pass the bar, nobodys stopping you. As for mpdc's post, I side with him. I've read a lot of his posts on here and he seems very fair. If he wants to hold someone's knife until something is sorted out I say go ahead. I believe the more comfortable you can make an Leo the better the outcome for you so why not?
    Okay NEWB, how about LEO leaves me and my possessions alone until I do something that is deserving of being disarmed.
    Don't give me this preemptive crap, this is NOT Minority Report.

    FYI, I'm not talking about buzzzy's situation. There is obviously more to his story. We ALL need to know how the interaction with said LEO started. And we all know he left that part out on purpose. I don't think anyone on here is judging his character but for him being a member on here since 2007, he ought to know better than to tell half a story like that.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,367
    White Marsh
    offtopic.gif
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    I didn't say take. I said ask to hold. Understand what I said for what I wrote. Please don't turn it around to suit your petty argument.
    Yet again you jump in a thread and add absolutely nothing. Its no wonder so many members have you on their ignore list. :rolleyes:

    Arent you the guy who jumps in and adds nothing but cop bashing into these threads? No wonder everyone has you on their "douchewaffle" list... And did you call someone a variety of the word "noob/newb"? That's sad man. Only video game kids use Internet slang like that... Don't worry tho, we still love you.
     

    jaypark

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 29, 2009
    3,471
    peoples republic of MOCO
    Arent you the guy who jumps in and adds nothing but cop bashing into these threads? No wonder everyone has you on their "douchewaffle" list... And did you call someone a variety of the word "noob/newb"? That's sad man. Only video game kids use Internet slang like that... Don't worry tho, we still love you.

    you say bashing and we say its entertaining.... mr keyboard toughguy... possibly in mom basement, naked, with conspiracy theory playing... since that is fact

    the reason why there is likely more to this is think of all the professions that require having and using a knife such as landscapers or construction.... I cant think of an event wherein one of them was stopped and locked up for the blade

    I do however remember an event where a local homeless guy who was afflicted with paranoid schizophrenia was locked up for a kitchen knife after it was determined its use was not for steak but as a weapon... see the difference or are we back to 'no you shoulda waited til he committed a violent act and only then (and politely) can you approach but you have to wait for a search warrant'
     

    booker

    Active Member
    Apr 5, 2008
    776
    Baltimore
    I'm not a lawyer, so I don't offer legal advice. But my understanding of MD's extremely vague knife laws regarding assisted opening knives is that it comes down to intent. The same knife can be considered legal or illegal, depending on the individual's intent. If the officer believes that the individual's intent was to use the knife as a weapon, then it is an illegal weapon.

    If I was being patted down or questioned for any reason, I would disclose that I had a pocketknife that I use for work, and anything else that could possibly be considered a weapon. I would allow the officer to remove them from my person and hold during the conversation. I would not remove them myself, as that could be seen as threatening by somebody observing, like the officer's partner. Adding the fact that I "use it for work" immediately sets the tone of the encounter in my favor, as opposed to leaving it entirely up to the officer's interpretation.

    I've found that candor, while being polite and cooperative, goes a long way.

    http://knife-expert.com/md.txt

    state-by-state breakdown http://thefiringline.com/library/blades/knifelaws.html

    Anderson v State of MD http://thefiringline.com/library/blades/md/Anderson%20v.%20State%20-%20614%20A.2d%20963%20(1992).html
     

    Lex Armarum

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2009
    3,450
    Of course I'm guessing here because the entire facts of this incident havent been posted.

    But you can "conceal" a weapon from the police/public and have it come into plain view.

    So defendant has gun in his waistband concealed from view. In his course of reaching for ID or anything else the officer observes it. Then wouldnt that be a "concealed" plain view case?

    That's true insofar as a handgun in the waistband is concerned but, then again, that wouldn't be considered "plain view." Rather, that would be considered RAS for a search. Per the OP, the police officer spied the knife "clipped" on the top edge of his pocket and seized it without initiating proper search protocol.

    I'm pretty sure that if a cop ID'd a handgun in the waistband of a suspect/interviewee, said officer would not simply reach out and grab said weapon from the waistband; then again, maybe I'm wrong about police conduct. However, I am not wrong in the search differential.

    The situation here, as presented, is something of a search/not search variety. Either there was a legitimate safety search whereupon the officer discovered a potential weapon or there was no search initiated and officer was able to discover said weapon by a visual search of suspect/interviewee thus negating any concealment argument since the crux of concealment is hiding something so that it is not easily seen.
     

    11b10

    Member
    Jun 15, 2010
    99
    Union Bridge, MD
    Originally Posted by haoleboy
    Okay NEWB, how about LEO leaves me and my possessions alone until I do something that is deserving of being disarmed.
    Don't give me this preemptive crap, this is NOT Minority Report.

    They will leave you and your possessions alone... if you are not doing suspicious stuff, hanging out with known dirt bags, new face in a shitty neighborhood that does not look like you are just passing through. (ie) they keep seeing you, and you don't belong there.

    Sooo, i know what this guy is upset about... here goes..

    I was kicking the shit out of my old lady when the GD neighbors called the cops.. Cops arrive and took my knife, they have no right to do that since I did not use it on my old lady nor threaten them with it(so why the hell would they take it, they have no right) Oh and I'm a MD shooter.com board member since 2007 which puts everyone on notice I am squared away... get real

    Bottom line if they take your knife,, while doing a terry search, you are most likely being investigated for something that can be defined by (reasonable articulable suspision) or as in the above they have evidence that a crime has been committed and you are suspect number 1.. unless you can convince them that Erkle just ran out the back door after punching her in the mouth.
     

    Sthomas229

    none
    MDS Supporter
    May 7, 2009
    6,659
    Laurel, MD
    For safety huh? So if I'm legally walking around the National Mall and you walk past me and you see me with a knife clipped inside my pocket....That is cause to stop me and take my knife "for your safety?"
    How about I ask to hold your gun for MY safety since cop or not, I have no reason what so ever to trust you?

    On a side note, I'd love to hear the WHOLE story from buzzzy.

    He said during "an encounter" that does not include walking by you on the mall.:sad20:

    Now the question is how it is taken. I don't think in a "just talking" encounter, an officer should step up and snatch a knife out of your pocket as OP described, but if an officer said "sir, is that a knife in your pocket? Mind if I hold onto that while we're speaking?" I would not have a problem with that.

    Now, I'll also say I've always been a good boy and never had any "encounters" with a LEO that went beyond a traffic ticket.:D
     

    Fodder4Thought

    New Dad!!
    Jul 19, 2009
    3,035
    That's true insofar as a handgun in the waistband is concerned but, then again, that wouldn't be considered "plain view." Rather, that would be considered RAS for a search. Per the OP, the police officer spied the knife "clipped" on the top edge of his pocket and seized it without initiating proper search protocol.

    I'm pretty sure that if a cop ID'd a handgun in the waistband of a suspect/interviewee, said officer would not simply reach out and grab said weapon from the waistband; then again, maybe I'm wrong about police conduct. However, I am not wrong in the search differential.

    The situation here, as presented, is something of a search/not search variety. Either there was a legitimate safety search whereupon the officer discovered a potential weapon or there was no search initiated and officer was able to discover said weapon by a visual search of suspect/interviewee thus negating any concealment argument since the crux of concealment is hiding something so that it is not easily seen.

    Huh. Rusty, how would the plain view idea apply to, say, a sheathed sword? Specifically, it was sheathed but carried openly, and the officer in charge wound up writing me a warning for 'carrying a concealed weapon in plane (sic) view.' Maybe it's just me, but I found (and still find) that all kinds of confusing.

    This is not asking for legal advice, by the way - the incident that spawned this question happened many, many years ago when I was 17, and nothing came of it except that my mother had to go to the police station to get it back.
     

    Lex Armarum

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2009
    3,450
    Huh. Rusty, how would the plain view idea apply to, say, a sheathed sword? Specifically, it was sheathed but carried openly, and the officer in charge wound up writing me a warning for 'carrying a concealed weapon in plane (sic) view.' Maybe it's just me, but I found (and still find) that all kinds of confusing.

    This is not asking for legal advice, by the way - the incident that spawned this question happened many, many years ago when I was 17, and nothing came of it except that my mother had to go to the police station to get it back.

    That's a good question. PM me about it and we'll talk.
     

    jaypark

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 29, 2009
    3,471
    peoples republic of MOCO
    Huh. Rusty, how would the plain view idea apply to, say, a sheathed sword? Specifically, it was sheathed but carried openly, and the officer in charge wound up writing me a warning for 'carrying a concealed weapon in plane (sic) view.' Maybe it's just me, but I found (and still find) that all kinds of confusing.

    This is not asking for legal advice, by the way - the incident that spawned this question happened many, many years ago when I was 17, and nothing came of it except that my mother had to go to the police station to get it back.

    thanx for the intell... ren fest here I come.... gonna bag my limit

    Rusty if youre serious I'll ask an ASAO his opinion and yes hes conservative and a gun guy
     

    Fodder4Thought

    New Dad!!
    Jul 19, 2009
    3,035
    thanx for the intell... ren fest here I come.... gonna bag my limit

    Rusty if youre serious I'll ask an ASAO his opinion and yes hes conservative and a gun guy

    I'd never even heard of renfest at that point, though it is a lot of fun - I mean where else can you win beers by throwing knives, axes, and other sharp/pointy things? Also, clevage. And belly dancers. And beer. Lots and lots of beer.

    It was a martial arts thing, not a nerd thing, actually. The black belt exam for my organization required learning some weapons forms, and a friend in the neighborhood (in the same organization) wanted to borrow my sword to practice with. So, being naive and 17, the answer was clearly to grab the sword and start walking.
     

    jaypark

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 29, 2009
    3,471
    peoples republic of MOCO
    I'd never even heard of renfest at that point, though it is a lot of fun - I mean where else can you win beers by throwing knives, axes, and other sharp/pointy things? Also, clevage. And belly dancers. And beer. Lots and lots of beer.

    It was a martial arts thing, not a nerd thing, actually. The black belt exam for my organization required learning some weapons forms, and a friend in the neighborhood (in the same organization) wanted to borrow my sword to practice with. So, being naive and 17, the answer was clearly to grab the sword and start walking.

    the dude in the car in front of me had an tag 'drgnrdr' which apparently means dragon rider....


    I'm sure hes a card carrying member of the 40 cal Clan, IT, hoard
     

    Eddie Van

    Dude
    Feb 4, 2011
    647
    Hollywood Star Lanes
    ...

    I've found that candor, while being polite and cooperative, goes a long way.

    This. Even if the OP's knife seizure was somehow illegal, it's still a major hassle to deal with the aftermath.

    EVERY encounter with LEO's in my (fortunately limited) experience has resulted in me being treated in the same way that I was treating them.

    When I was belligerent/know-it-all/generally-douchy-armchair-lawyer-ish, it cost me, Either in time or $ (or both).

    When I was polite/conscientious/forthcoming/contrite, usually got the "..have a nice day" in the end
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    I had a Park Cop stop me for a cracked windshield and was charged with multiple CDWs for the tools in my bucket on the floor of my pickup. The Judge threw it out but it cost me a days work. I suppose they just arrest em all and let the Judge sort it out. After all all non LE's are criminals looking for a charge.
     

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