redeemed.man
Ultimate Member
Don't trust him, he will get you in a pickle.
Is a bull barrel ar-15 an HBAR?
- Thread starter lee2
- Start date
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stringer bell
Active Member
- Aug 20, 2014
- 106
My thoughts.
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range and checking barrel diameter or hbar stampings of post FSA AR's?
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range and checking purchase date on all non heavy barreled AR's?
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range, and asked for form 1 or form 4's showing that non heavy barreled AR's are SBR's and not subject to the heavy barrel requirement.
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range asking for documentation from a manufacture stating that's its a heavy barreled variant and verifying that the upper/barrel on the rifle is in fact from that manufacture.
My thoughts are it really doesn't matter what it is because there is no real enforcement going on. the state police are not going to get involved in in such a complicated non issue when they can sit on 95 and run radar all day.
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range and checking barrel diameter or hbar stampings of post FSA AR's?
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range and checking purchase date on all non heavy barreled AR's?
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range, and asked for form 1 or form 4's showing that non heavy barreled AR's are SBR's and not subject to the heavy barrel requirement.
How many reports have there been of MSP showing up at the range asking for documentation from a manufacture stating that's its a heavy barreled variant and verifying that the upper/barrel on the rifle is in fact from that manufacture.
My thoughts are it really doesn't matter what it is because there is no real enforcement going on. the state police are not going to get involved in in such a complicated non issue when they can sit on 95 and run radar all day.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Agreed it is unlikely.
But if you get in trouble for something else, they will add on this as a firearms charge.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Yes, but if they check and the lower was manufactured AFTER 10/1/13 you would be in trouble.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
But if something else happens, and you are in possession of a rifle that is not legal, that will be at least one more charge to fight. Or have your sentence increased for. Or worse, you beat the main charge and go to prison for the illegal rifle.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
This law was not written this way to screw people on this specific issue. They just copied the Federal ban from 1994. EXACT same list.
They passed it this way due to ignorance.
They passed it this way due to ignorance.
Now that, I can see...but 100% not as the only and original "crime"...
And we all know that any firearm charges are dropped immediately anyway...well, if you're a habitual criminal, they are. Could you imagine being the guy who has his firearm charges, of "assembling a non-HBAR rifle", being prosecuted, while killers, assaulters, robbers, druggies, and various other POS's get Nolle Prosequi'd for being felons carrying loaded, handguns every single day?
That's my whole point. How is it possible to do a spot check, and determine what your manufacture date of your lower is, or if your barrel is not "advertised" as HBAR? After personally going through 3 separate paperwork issues regarding handguns, I can't imagine anybody is that up to date on long gun records...
I'd also wonder IF you are even required to show anybody your weapon on demand? If it's cased, and there's no legitimate reason for it, are actually required to uncase and show any LEO your weapon? Specifically, your "long gun" aka AR
Bolts Rock
Living in Free America!
You could fill the entire cavity and it still won't balance at the front of the magwell for a 20" bull barrel.
stringer bell
Active Member
- Aug 20, 2014
- 106
BUT, BUT , BUT...
Here is the thing though, in any given year, there are around 300 people going to be murdered in Baltimore, with probably 3 times the amount being shot, Baltimore is ranked in the top 3 areas for homicides on a regular basis
Around 400 people are going to die on Maryland roads this year
Maryland is also ranked number 10 in terms of fatalities from lighting strikes over the past 40 years
since FSA became law, their have been ZERO reports of examples of somebody getting tabbed for non compliance in regards to HBAR.
I care far more about possible being killed than what may come out of having a non stamped hbar without a company advertisement, and guess what, I still go to Baltimore on occasion, I leave my house when it rains, and I drive to work 5 days a week.
I give about the same amount of thought to HBAR's as I do dog licenses.
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,446
Any restriction is too much restriction. It's not the HBAR issue that is the problem. It is the bogus restriction. At what point do we begin to care (give more thought to) the restrictions?
Different folks have different interests. But ALL of us need to support each other's interests in the 2A community. If we don't... Who will be there when our own interests are under attack?
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
71Chevelle427;4213301That's my whole point. How is it possible to do a spot check said:
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
1) Feel free to violate any law you care to do. Just don't come crying if you get caught.
2) It is still the law, until it is changed or the courts say to is not constitutional.
3) Remember, this list of banned rifles was in affect for 10 years at the Federal level. Don't you think it was fought then? And it stayed in affect until it sunsetted. It was NOT voted out, it was just not voted to renew.
2) It is still the law, until it is changed or the courts say to is not constitutional.
3) Remember, this list of banned rifles was in affect for 10 years at the Federal level. Don't you think it was fought then? And it stayed in affect until it sunsetted. It was NOT voted out, it was just not voted to renew.
Lol...ok.
If you're doing nothing illegal, you're not going to get arrested and have your rifle confiscated on their hopes that they might find you have an illegal barrel on it...let's not be too overly ridiculous. All my stuff is legal so I'm leaving the tinfoil under the sink, where it belongs.
I was asking about the showing of your firearm due to you not legally having go talk to a LEO or provide ID, according to the trouble makers on YouTube. I'm always respectful to any law enforcement members, so I can't fathom why or how anybody would ever question my rifle configuration, assuming they even know what an hbar even is... If you get pulled over for speeding, I don't think they're going to get a search warrant to look in your trunk to see if you're transporting a non hbar rifle or not...they have more important things to do then try to decipher a very unclear law.
If you're doing nothing illegal, you're not going to get arrested and have your rifle confiscated on their hopes that they might find you have an illegal barrel on it...let's not be too overly ridiculous. All my stuff is legal so I'm leaving the tinfoil under the sink, where it belongs.
I was asking about the showing of your firearm due to you not legally having go talk to a LEO or provide ID, according to the trouble makers on YouTube. I'm always respectful to any law enforcement members, so I can't fathom why or how anybody would ever question my rifle configuration, assuming they even know what an hbar even is... If you get pulled over for speeding, I don't think they're going to get a search warrant to look in your trunk to see if you're transporting a non hbar rifle or not...they have more important things to do then try to decipher a very unclear law.
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,446
Lol...ok.
If you're doing nothing illegal, you're not going to get arrested and have your rifle confiscated on their hopes that they might find you have an illegal barrel on it...let's not be too overly ridiculous. All my stuff is legal so I'm leaving the tinfoil under the sink, where it belongs.
I was asking about the showing of your firearm due to you not legally having go talk to a LEO or provide ID, according to the trouble makers on YouTube. I'm always respectful to any law enforcement members, so I can't fathom why or how anybody would ever question my rifle configuration, assuming they even know what an hbar even is... If you get pulled over for speeding, I don't think they're going to get a search warrant to look in your trunk to see if you're transporting a non hbar rifle or not...they have more important things to do then try to decipher a very unclear law.
Probabilities are very low that you would ever be stopped and asked to show that your M4 barreled rifle was assembled pre 10/01/13. However, there are many scenarios where the question may be brought to bear.
• A pissed off friend/family member/domestic partner reports that you possess an illegal rifle.
• A traffic accident where you are transporting the rifle and get injured and need to be taken to an ER. The vehicle is towed and contents inventoried.
• the list of possibilities is a long one. Many of which are on the low end of the probability scale... But none the less... These things do plague us. Therefore it behooves us to be legit at all times while in possession of firearms.
Truth is... You may never get checked. But there is always that one chance. Best we don't take it... And I am NOT suggesting that you would.
Peace...
Thanks for the much more realistic answer.
I know you ANAL (are not a lawyer
), but since you are definitely more experienced in the LEO field than most of us, can I get your opinion on a hypothetical scenario?
I get pulled over in a pickup truck,
Officer sees a rifle case in the back seat,
Asks what it is,
You are courteous, as I would be, and tell him it's a rifle, and you just left range,
He then asks for you to uncase it,
Are you (the gun owner) obligated in any way whatsoever to physically SHOW the weapon to the officer?
Like said above, all my stuff is legal, but I also don't think (and I absolutely may be wrong) that I would "have to" physically show any firearms to the officer, especially if they are inaccessible to me and on my back seat...remembering it's a pickup truck with no trunk, obviously.
My opinion is that if the officer was as respectful to me, as I was to him, then I'd show them if he asked, as I have nothing to hide, nor am I suffering from any sort of paranoia, lol...but (flipside) I also think that any officer who asks you to uncase a rifle, is opening himself up to what could be a very dangerous situation, and "probably" would forego that request anyway...unless by this time, there are several other officers there for you having illegal tint, and going 67 in a 55 on the way to Ocean City, which absolutely has happened to me in the past.
Thoughts?
I know you ANAL (are not a lawyer
), but since you are definitely more experienced in the LEO field than most of us, can I get your opinion on a hypothetical scenario?I get pulled over in a pickup truck,
Officer sees a rifle case in the back seat,
Asks what it is,
You are courteous, as I would be, and tell him it's a rifle, and you just left range,
He then asks for you to uncase it,
Are you (the gun owner) obligated in any way whatsoever to physically SHOW the weapon to the officer?
Like said above, all my stuff is legal, but I also don't think (and I absolutely may be wrong) that I would "have to" physically show any firearms to the officer, especially if they are inaccessible to me and on my back seat...remembering it's a pickup truck with no trunk, obviously.
My opinion is that if the officer was as respectful to me, as I was to him, then I'd show them if he asked, as I have nothing to hide, nor am I suffering from any sort of paranoia, lol...but (flipside) I also think that any officer who asks you to uncase a rifle, is opening himself up to what could be a very dangerous situation, and "probably" would forego that request anyway...unless by this time, there are several other officers there for you having illegal tint, and going 67 in a 55 on the way to Ocean City, which absolutely has happened to me in the past.
Thoughts?
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,446
Thanks for the much more realistic answer.
I know you ANAL (are not a lawyer
I get pulled over in a pickup truck,
Officer sees a rifle case in the back seat,
Asks what it is,
You are courteous, as I would be, and tell him it's a rifle, and you just left range,
He then asks for you to uncase it,
Are you (the gun owner) obligated in any way whatsoever to physically SHOW the weapon to the officer?
Like said above, all my stuff is legal, but I also don't think (and I absolutely may be wrong) that I would "have to" physically show any firearms to the officer, especially if they are inaccessible to me and on my back seat...remembering it's a pickup truck with no trunk, obviously.
My opinion is that if the officer was as respectful to me, as I was to him, then I'd show them if he asked, as I have nothing to hide, nor am I suffering from any sort of paranoia, lol...but (flipside) I also think that any officer who asks you to uncase a rifle, is opening himself up to what could be a very dangerous situation, and "probably" would forego that request anyway...unless by this time, there are several other officers there for you having illegal tint, and going 67 in a 55 on the way to Ocean City, which absolutely has happened to me in the past.
Thoughts?
Is the case locked/sealed?
Yes?
• I doubt you will be asked to open it for show and tell. Most LEOs will not wish to risk a violation of your 4A. And although the firearm IS within the reach of the driver, it is NOT accessible to the driver inside of the locked case.
• You have the right to deny opening the locked case without a warrant present. And you also have the right to open it and show your legal EBR with the shoulderthingythatgoesup if you wish. Respect is the key here... Give it and your life will be easier.
• With no legal reason or other matters of investigation at hand... You will most likely be on your way.
• FWIW... "Lock" can be anything key or combination style. Or simply a nylon wire tie (zip tie) securing the case zipper on a soft case. Zip ties are CHEAP seals but are still a "seal" for the purpose of 4A. Harbor Freight sells them by the bags full... And they can be cut off with simple nail clippers.
NO?
• The firearm is then "...within reach of and accessible by the driver of the vehicle." Therefore it is discoverable by the LEO. Sticky wicket... In your scenario involving the pickup truck (or other vehicle with no trunk to lock it in) it would be advisable to not have any ammo/loaded mags in the same unlocked case.
As you pointed out... IANAL... Furthermore, I am also not going to be there to direct the investigation and cannot guarantee any outcome for you. But, if things were to go south... I trust that you have all documentation necessary to present the facts in court to the satisfaction of any judge, that your EBR was in your possession prior to 10/01/13.
That said... Manufacturers maintain a record of serial numbers and relative production/shipping dates. If there is any question about time frame, I'm sure the experts can iron them out.
Here's hoping the matter can be unfroshed by the courts so we no longer need to be bothered with the BS.
Stay safe.
lsw
לא לדרוך עליי
- Sep 2, 2013
- 1,975
Could try tungsten or depleted uranium, both about 70% denser than lead, or platinum, almost twice as dense!
Lou45
R.I.P.
Well then my "Bull" barreled gun I built up last fall (2015) onna' post 10/01/13 lower is illegal by that ^^^ post. Fukkum'.
iH8DemLibz
When All Else Fails.
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