When to buy new, when to reload

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  • Trekker

    Active Member
    Oct 20, 2011
    687
    Harford County
    The purpose of this thread is to discuss and analyze the point at which it makes more sense, purely from a cost perspective, to either buy commercially made ammunition or to reload. What I am currently wondering about is .30-06 and .223. I have not reloaded either of these, and so have less information or possibly some misconceptions.

    There are a number of reasons why we reload, from customizing rounds to our particular firearm and intended usage, to cost savings, or to have ammunition when there is a shortage of commercially produced ammunition. From just the cost savings standpoint, the question is whether the cost of components {bullet, powder, primer} (brass is either re-used or salvage found at ranges) is suitably less than the cost of new ammunition. If the sole purpose for reloading happens to be cost savings, those cost savings need to be enough to eventually offset the price of the reloading equipment and make the time invested worthwhile.

    As examples, personnally I do not reload shotgun shells for skeet. My shotgun is a 12 gauge and I use #7.5 or #8, so on sale I can find 25 round boxes for perhaps $6.50, or 26c per round. Between the cost of shot, powder, wads, primers, and not having any shotshell reloading gear, there is no reason for me to pursue shotshell reloading. On the other hand, reloading .38spl benefits me. A 50 round box of new .38spl can be found for $16-$20 (32c-40c). My component costs for .38spl are ~3c (primer), ~1c (powder), and ~9c(plated bullet), so a total cost of ~13c per round or $6.50 a box.

    At the moment CMP still has Greek M2 .30-06, 200 rounds for $130 shipped (65c / round), and these would also leave me with reloadable brass. I do not have that good of an idea of component costs, but assuming ~4c (primer), ~21c (powder), and ~21c (Hornady 150gr FMJ-BT from Midway), that is a per round cost of 48c. I therefore have a choice between 65c a round with no effort on my part that also provides reloadable brass (which I can reload once CMP runs out), or save 17c (65-48=17) by providing my own brass and time to reload rounds.

    Walmart has those Tula 500 round packages of .223 for $126.14 ($119 + tax) (25c / round). Estimating ~4c (primer), ~10c (powder), and ~9c (55gr bullet), I have a reloading cost of 23c. If I buy Walmart I get Tula steel cased ammunition that will be a bit harder on my gun, give me no brass, and I can’t take it to places like Freestate. However, the Walmart ammo is essentially the cost of reloaded ammo with no labor hours required.
     

    Bootknife

    Ultimate Member
    You make valid points and investment in tooling is not inexpensive these days. I started reloading in the 60's so my first tools were Cheaper ($27 for my Herter's six station press ) Which I have not been able to Wear out in 50 Years! I have purchased other Tooling and Dies Through the years also. One thing about Reloading that may seem intangible is the Satisfaction of Creating very Accurate Ammo for Your Weapons. Savings is a Big Factor ....But to Me The Hobby is More than that. I hope others will "Way In" on Their Reasons for This Side Of Shooting !
     

    JoeRinMD

    Rifleman
    Jul 18, 2008
    2,014
    AA County
    I first got started reloading after I got involved with Cowboy Action shooting. My rifle and pistols were chambered in .45 Colt and I was able to find a used Dillon 550B locally. I developed a "break-even" spreadsheet that showed after about 1,300 to 1,500 I was "in the black". IIRC back then a box of factory .45 Colt from Ultramax was about $25.00 and I could reload it for about $6.00 using the spent shells from my first purchases (before getting the press). Now the situation is far worse, with factory ammo going for ~$40.00 per box.

    What compounded the issue for me is that my son and I were shooting together and using one set of guns, so double the ammo cost. Of course, over time I got him a set of his own guns, but chambered in .38/.357 which is cheaper for both factory- or reloaded ammo.

    Then I picked up a 1911, so I started shooting .45 acp on a regular basis. For factory ammo, this was less expensive than .45 Colt, but still far from cheap. I had a set of dies that came with my Dillon press, so I started reloading that was well...at about the same ~$6.00 per box level.

    Over the years, I've loaded several thousand rounds of those three calibers. I picked up a set of used 9mm dies, but haven't loaded much of that yet. I just don't shoot it enough.
     

    stu929

    M1 Addict
    Jan 2, 2012
    6,605
    Hagerstown
    While your numbers are accurate they are also assumed best case in mint instances. Also looks like you were basing it on $30 a lb powder which while normal on md is high.

    That being said I can Loa match grade hunting ammo for the prices you listed, sometimes less if I find a deal on components. Do I need it? No not usually but the prices you listed are for fmj which is good for only one thing punching paper and while thats what most here do, if I wanted to I could shoot a match, go hunting or punch paper and still save money provided I have sufficient brass stored up.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    Tool up to reload, then buy only when you need to replace worn out brass, and then only if you can't scrounge up good free brass elsewhere. Bottom line, no matter if you dive in heavily, or only reload now and again, eventually it's going to pay for itself, probably sooner rather than later, and you get a lot more choice about how your load goes together. For rifles, you can tailor a specific load for a specific gun - how could you do that with factory ammo with any real reliability?
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Reloading is many different things to many different people. To me personally, reloading is a welcomed extension of my firearms interests, and a hobby in and of itself. I currently load for 10 different cartridges, and at one time loaded for more. I would today personally load ammo even if component costs were such that I could buy factory ammo for the same cost. That's just me.

    Your points have validity given the 2 rounds and the cost anaylsis you mention. In terms of strictly "cost savings", .223 Rem. (especially in more stable times) is a cartridge that will tend to yield comparatively diminishing return cost wise to the handloader. The same can be said of today's extremely popular 9mm Luger. I still load both of these cartridges myself, but not primarily for cost reasons.

    On the flip side, I also load .41 Remington Magnum. 50 rounds of this cartridge today in jacketed form under the Remington factory label will set you back $65.00 per box, or $1.30 a round. I absolutely love this cartridge. Were it not for handloading, I also just as absolutely couldn't afford to shoot it nearly as often as I do. So for me, these mentioned cartridge examples represent my extreme spreads in terms of cost variance.

    Another thing to consider is how often you shoot, and how much ammunition you tend to consume per session. Many folks will take a bolt action rifle to the range, maybe expend 15 or 30 rounds, and call it a day. Conversely, most autoloader rifle folks would laugh and call 15 to 30 rounds "today's first standard capacity magazine", and the first of many.

    I would suggest to you that "cost savings" tends to be a myth. Cost savings is not big picture reality with many handloaders. It is incredibly easy in many endeavors to mislead with statistics. What does tend to be a more accurate reality of handloading is that, if desired, you'll avail yourself the opportunity to shoot a helluva lot more for the same dollars spent. To some people, and myself included, that's reason enough to handload. For other more casual or occasional shooters, that potential appeal matters not so much, as they're going to shoot only so much ammo and only so often anyway. You need to consider your own personal circumstances and realities there.

    I would also suggest that what cartridges you most typically shoot makes a huge difference in a strict cost anaylsis sense. Also, and relevant to some of us, you'll need a time machine to find availability in certain cartridges. Handloading can oftentimes make a shooter out of what would otherwise be a wallhanger, and one that was long ago relegated to being a footnote in firearms history.

    To me, handloading's biggest appeal comes from the ability one has to tailor a load, or multiple loads, or sometimes otherwise unavailable loads to any firearm I may personally own. My own personal preference is for firearm and cartridge combinations that are either inherently accurate, or that can be made to be so. I once quickly purchased and almost just as quickly sold a slide action .30-06 that couldn't hit a barn wall with most factory ammunition from inside the barn. I'm exaggerating of course, but not by much. 3MOA groups may well be minute of deer, but they don't thrill me one bit just the same. Once I found the load that finicky and contrary bastage of a rifle liked, and it took me a lot of time and a lot of effort to find it, I now have a rifle that I like that I'm also now very confident in. To me, I enjoy that aspect of handloading. To me, that's fun. YMMV.
     
    Last edited:

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    OP, you forgot one thing. You need to compare your reloading costs to MATCH GRADE AMMO costs. I am generating match grade ammo for a 308 and each round is about 50 cents to make, versus 2 bucks per round for FGMM. IMR 3031 ~15c, CCI 200 ~ 3c, brass ~1-2c, 168 SMK ~ 30c = right around 50 cents. The only difference is that my ammo can out preform FGMM any day of the week.

    Never, ever compare your reloads to WWB at Wal-Mart or some other cheap brand. Always compare them to the best ammo you can find. Your reloads are going to be more consistent, because you control everything at every step of the manufacturing process. Also you are able to do load development and tune a load for each rifle/pistol you own.
     

    JoeRinMD

    Rifleman
    Jul 18, 2008
    2,014
    AA County
    Another thing to consider is how often you shoot, and how much ammunition you tend to consume per session. Many folks will take a bolt action rifle to the range, may expend 15 or 30 rounds, and call it a day. Conversely, most autoloader rifle folks would laugh and call 15 to 30 rounds "today's first standard capacity magazine", and the first of many.

    I would suggest to you that "cost savings" tends to be a myth. Cost savings is not big picture reality with many handloaders. It is incredibly easy in many endeavors to mislead with statistics. What does tend to be a more accurate reality of handloading is that, if desired, you'll avail yourself the opportunity to shoot a helluva lot more for the same dollars spent.

    Those are two good points. To your first point, when shooting cowboy action, we'd typically shoot 100-120 rounds per match. If I was doing it with my son, we'd have double that. At current .45 Colt prices, that would be $200-$250 for a day's shooting, vice about $24-$30. That makes a mighty expensive day of cowboy shooting. Of course that doesn't consider the recent ammo shortage.

    Your second point is true as well. I shoot the 1911 a lot because I can afford to do so. If I were buying all factory . 45 acp ammo at ~$20-25 per box, I'd shoot it a lot less. So in the final bottom-line accounting, I may not be "saving" any dollars, I just get to shoot 3 times as much for a given amount of expenditure.

    A long time ago, when I first got into alpine skiing, a friend of mine and I were trying to calculate how many runs or weekends we'd have to ski to "cost justify" the new equipment. Both of us were young engineers (read geeks) and doing this kind of analysis was a natural as walking. After trying to guestimate the runs per day and weekends per year, he thought about it and said "Joe, some things you really can't cost-justify, you can only budget for". Truer words were never spoken. We shoot because we like to, and we can shoot more when it costs us less.

    JoeR
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    OP, you forgot one thing. You need to compare your reloading costs to MATCH GRADE AMMO costs.

    Never, ever compare your reloads to WWB at Wal-Mart or some other cheap brand. Always compare them to the best ammo you can find.

    Yep. Where applicable, a good benchmark price-wise is Hornady (match-grade) and Black Hills. PPU match-grade at the very low end.
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    I reload for accuracy....it's very time consuming for sure. I started off with just the basics to save money but time is worth something also.

    The $100 tuned balance beam scale turned into $350 RCBS Chargemaster.

    The $60 trimmer turned into a $500 giruard trimmer.

    You get the point....be realistic with your wants/needs.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    I reload for .44 Magnum. Factory prices for .44 Mag are obscene, but aside from that, I load a fairly mild load of 9 grains of Unique under a 240 grain bullet. It still let's me know that I'm shooting a .44 Mag without punishing me or my 1956 S&W, and it doesn't cost me a fortune to shoot - it winds up being marginally more than my reloaded .45 ACP, or even my reloaded .38 spc.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,564
    Harford County, Maryland
    For 223, I feel it is worth reloading. For the cost of Tula or Wolf steel case you can produce ammunition producing 1 MOA, give or take a little. It will have all guilding jacket and not erode a barrel like Russian steel jacketed, especially in rapid fire shooting. Plus you have the long range accuracy and consistancy for those long targets, again something I found lacking in the Russian stuff.

    For centerfire rifle and heavy caliber handgun, there is no comparison, handloading is the only way to go to be cost effective if you shoot the caliber frequently. This was iterated by others and has been my experience as well.

    FWIW, I've had very good results with my RRA HBAR shooting bulk box non-penetrator, Federal, Remington 223 being the best. I've shot several other brands and am coming to the conclusion if you have a good AR platform you're going to get acceptable to good accuracy with decent factory ammo. But so far, as indicated previously, the good handload still has them beat. And I use a powder measure on a progressive press to get those sub-MOA groups.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Well from a pure $ basis , the OP pointed out two of the handfull of exceptions , IF you are satisfied with Tula or Greek surplus. In those specific cals you can load much better ammo for the same money, if you care , or would notice the difference. For modest distance high volume blasting you probably couldn't notice.

    For just about every other cal , the savings are there , and sometimes huge.

    And as also noted , for some handloading is an enjoyable hobby in itself.
     

    bmonast

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2011
    258
    Gamber, MD
    Well from a pure $ basis , the OP pointed out two of the handfull of exceptions , IF you are satisfied with Tula or Greek surplus. In those specific cals you can load much better ammo for the same money, if you care , or would notice the difference. For modest distance high volume blasting you probably couldn't notice.

    For just about every other cal , the savings are there , and sometimes huge.

    And as also noted , for some handloading is an enjoyable hobby in itself.

    I could not agree more. Dad started me reloading in the 70's, first 12 ga trap loads (we were going through 600 rounds per week) then to 30.06, .308, .38spl. and although prices of lead. powder and primers have gone up quite a bit over the past few years I still enjoy the process. In fact, when I got the bug to shoot long range I easily could have gone the .308 route like everyone else but no, I liked everything I read about the 6.5x47 Lapua, which as you probably guessed, factory ammo is next to impossible to find. So I roll my own and have total control over the amount of powder and projectile. And a few quiet hours per month in the garage is nice too. For me, this is one of those things that is not purely about the cost, and you cannot compare Winchester White box to what you can create in your basement or garage.
     

    shaddydan

    ADHD chicken fighter
    Oct 22, 2010
    4,676
    Hydes
    I don't have much to add for what has already been said. Cost savings can be huge depending on caliber. Accuracy goes up. The hobby in itself is rewarding. I've also found that reloaders have their own language that enhances my shooting. Not so much that reloaders are elite but there definitely is a different level of respect at the range. When I look at a new caliber now, I actually check the reload data and component availability before I decide.

    Some things just can't be figured on a cost/benefit analysis.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,564
    Harford County, Maryland
    " And a few quiet hours per month in the garage is nice too. For me, this is one of those things that is not purely about the cost, and you cannot compare Winchester White box to what you can create in your basement or garage."

    My favorite caliber is 44 Magnum. I remember reading load data over and over just thinking of what new load I could conjure. Shot, gallery (round ball), mild, pin, match grade, soft lead, hard cast all the way to absolute maximum fire breathing loads. And to discover I have my five go to loads for any application in which I have complete confidence.
     

    Trekker

    Active Member
    Oct 20, 2011
    687
    Harford County
    Well from a pure $ basis , the OP pointed out two of the handfull of exceptions , IF you are satisfied with Tula or Greek surplus. In those specific cals you can load much better ammo for the same money, if you care , or would notice the difference. For modest distance high volume blasting you probably couldn't notice.

    For just about every other cal , the savings are there , and sometimes huge.

    And as also noted , for some handloading is an enjoyable hobby in itself.

    Thanks to everyone for the information. I have been reloading for about 2 decades now on my rcbs rockchucker, but only for precision pistol rounds. The process of building a set of rounds of gradually increasing charge for a new bullet or powder, then testing them at the range for optimum recipe is fun in of itself. With recycled and found brass I have not purchased (outside of .22lr) pistol ammo in years. Certainly by the process of reloading I am able to go shooting for cheaper, which allows me to go shooting more often.

    It was the relative lack of information and experience with rifle rounds that prompted this thread. As Biggfoot44 noted, with the Greek CMP .30-06 and Walmart Tula .223, there appeared to be a possible alternative to the general rule of 'handloading is always cheaper'. Neither would stop me from handloading, it would just mean that I would get blasting ammo for the .30-06 and .223 and continue to pour my reloading time into pistol rounds. At the moment both rifles are still relatively new to me, so my focus is mostly enjoying shooting them in general than calculating minutes of accuracy on paper.

    I expected that both mass manufactured ammunition types would naturally be less accurate than handloads custom-crafted for my rifles. However, as I am not currently focusing on exceptional accuracy with them, and since the CMP or Walmart ammo reduced the potential cost savings from reloading, my thought was I could spend the extra time on other activities. Handloading is fun, but I could also be handloading for pistol, or cycling, or hiking, or reading a book, etc.

    To extend this discussion, I would like to ask how inaccurate the CMP Greek .30-06 (going out of a garand) and Tula .223 is. Because I focus strongly on pistol precision, with pistol rounds 'more accurate is better' ends any 'buy versus handload' analysis, regardless of cost. With rifle I want good enough accuracy to hit my target decently, but absolute accuracy is not as big a deal. I am shooting the garand and AR-15 with iron sights and am nearsighted, so ammunition capable of accuracy at long range is provides less added value over ammunition good enough for my current purposes. That said, if the Greek .30-06 and Tula .223 is so horrendous that I will be frustrated in the 0-200 yard range, then I would not be enjoying the shoot, and the entire purpose of shooting for me is to have fun.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    You didn't indicate in your initial post that you were already a reloader - I'm surprised that you asked the question if you are already well versed in the benefits, cost, performance and hand tailoring, that reloading provides. To me it's a no brainier - I don't currently shoot rifle at all, but if/when I start up, I will tool up for it regardless of whether or not it will save me any money - I'd rather shoot reloads than factory ammo any day.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,564
    Harford County, Maryland
    My experience with service grade ammo (LC and PMC) in 30-06 out of my Garand 3" groups at 100 yards is a sure thing. On the last two times out using the DCM sourced PMC I shoot sub 2" groups. I was really seeing the sights well and I getting a good consistent hold on the rifle. I hear the Grrek stuff is comparable but have no personal experience with it.

    Experience with the Russian steel case 223, about 3" group potential at 100 yards and about 3" off the POI of good reloads and Federal 223 55gr FMJBT.

    Others' and your mileage may vary.
     

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