MSP: FIREARM PURCHASE APPLICANTS WITH APPLICATIONS PENDING ON OCT 1 WON'T NEED HQL

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  • webb297

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 29, 2010
    2,800
    Bowie
    Like I stated earlier, the FFLs are getting their direction from someone, namely the MSP, since some are stating they WILL transfer a handgun AFTER 1OCT WITHOUT an HQL if a purchase was made prior to 1OCT. They have a LOT more to lose that we do. :D

    NO, they don't. The MSP do not interpret the law. They do not get to choose who is charged under the States legal system. They get to enforce the lasws that the state legislature has passed. The Attorney General of the state decides how laws are going to be enforced (and if). The MSP can not do that legally. Just because the MSP are not going to enforce the law (right now) does not mean that the states attorney can not get somebody else to enforce it. It also does not mean that they will not enforce the law later, when it suits them (if they can arbitrarily decide to not enforce it, what is stopping them from changing their minds?)

    As far as the FFLs go (btw - I love my FFLs they are doing everything they can) The regulation of the FFLs does fall under the purview of the MSP. If the MSP decides, ooops we screwd up, you actually could not make that transfer, those weapons were illegally transferred, sorry. The FFL might have their license revoked. If that does happen and the MSP or the AG now decide those weapons are illegal, and they come for and convict you, that 3 years of your life, a boat load of money and the revocation of 2A rights, and confiscation of your firearms.

    I would say that you have more to loose.

    I am not downplaying any FFL, they will/should run their business as they see fit. Just as you are free to buy as you see fit. But running around here with you fingers in your ears proclaiming its all cool because the local sheriffs department is on board, will not help you if this shakes out the wrong way.
     

    jaybee

    Ultimate Member
    Another case in point would be Dumais' comments regarding the new live fire requirement for the HQL. What may have been intended was not what ended up in print in SB 281.

    question:

    you need to live fire to get a HQL

    and you need a HQL to rent a gun

    and if a gun is handed to you in training which you paid for, aren't you then renting a gun without having a HQL

    politicans are the worst people to pick for passing laws
    :sad20:
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    Looking past your obvious sarcasm, sure it is. They decide to enforce or not to, very S I M P L E. :D

    In a blanket statement in direct contrast to their boss' signature legislation for the 2013 session?

    Ya, we know stealing is illegal but we're not going to prosecute anyone...
     

    webb297

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 29, 2010
    2,800
    Bowie
    Looking past your obvious sarcasm, sure it is. They decide to enforce or not to, very S I M P L E. :D

    NO it is NOT. The Attorney General choose who is charged with a crime - NOT the police. Their job is simply enforce the laws on the books.
     

    Tomcat

    Formerly Known As HITWTOM
    May 7, 2012
    5,568
    St.Mary's County
    From the Washington Times http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/its-all-smoke-and-whiskey/2013/sep/24/maryland-lets-guns-walk-despite-upcoming-laws/
    In an effort to allow applicants to receive weapons before the Maryland Gun Safety Act of 2013 takes effect, the Maryland Courts have made a ruling which will allow gun buyers to take possession of their weapons while the State performs the necessary background check
    The whole article seems very spotty and jumps around a lot. No other comments for now, just throwing it out there
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    question:

    you need to live fire to get a HQL

    and you need a HQL to rent a gun

    and if a gun is handed to you in training which you paid for, aren't you then renting a gun without having a HQL

    politicans are the worst people to pick for passing laws
    :sad20:

    Renting is not a problem if you don't leave the property.

    The larger issue is "receive".

    Black's Law Dictionary has the following definition for RECEIVE (and it is not redefined in the bill or in the Annotated Code of MD that I can locate):
    To take into possession and control; accept custody of; collect.

    In order to receive a handgun, you must have the HQL.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Is this not the very definition of a Fascist state??

    Totalitarian, arbitrary rulemaking under the guise of a free society?

    When we're dealing with a Progressive administration controlling complicit legislators and compliant agencies??

    Yeah......
     

    Parrot

    Member
    Jul 16, 2013
    72
    NO, they don't. The MSP do not interpret the law. They do not get to choose who is charged under the States legal system. They get to enforce the lasws that the state legislature has passed. The Attorney General of the state decides how laws are going to be enforced (and if). The MSP can not do that legally. Just because the MSP are not going to enforce the law (right now) does not mean that the states attorney can not get somebody else to enforce it. It also does not mean that they will not enforce the law later, when it suits them (if they can arbitrarily decide to not enforce it, what is stopping them from changing their minds?)

    As far as the FFLs go (btw - I love my FFLs they are doing everything they can) The regulation of the FFLs does fall under the purview of the MSP. If the MSP decides, ooops we screwd up, you actually could not make that transfer, those weapons were illegally transferred, sorry. The FFL might have their license revoked. If that does happen and the MSP or the AG now decide those weapons are illegal, and they come for and convict you, that 3 years of your life, a boat load of money and the revocation of 2A rights, and confiscation of your firearms.

    I would say that you have more to loose.

    I am not downplaying any FFL, they will/should run their business as they see fit. Just as you are free to buy as you see fit. But running around here with you fingers in your ears proclaiming its all cool because the local sheriffs department is on board, will not help you if this shakes out the wrong way.

    Too many contradictions in your statement to address in detail but here goes:

    MSP charges all of the time, you must mean convictions, which are very different. :D

    Doesn't MSP hold meetings with FFLs to discuss laws/regs? :D

    License revoked and jail for the FFL, that's worse than the average Joe who will most likely not lose their job. And with a good attorney, they'd most likely win with all of the confusion in this state. :D

    FFLs run their business based off direction (following the law/guidance give them). :D

    As for local sheriff's, most people on here did just that when they cheered for them. :D
     

    EHS1976

    Active Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    194
    USA
    Is this not the very definition of a Fascist state??

    Totalitarian, arbitrary rulemaking under the guise of a free society?

    When we're dealing with a Progressive administration controlling complicit legislators and compliant agencies??

    Yeah......

    Actually, I disagree. I believe fascism is on the extreme of the right wing side of the political spectrum. Maryland is anything but fascist if fascism is extreme right wing ideology.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Actually, I disagree. I believe fascism is on the extreme of the right wing side of the political spectrum. Maryland is anything but fascist if fascism is extreme right wing ideology.

    I've heard that contention before, but have to disagree.

    Look at WW2 Italy and Germany. We hear in the media that Mussolini and Hitler were right wing, but digging into their policies (fodder for another thread, another time) we see otherwise.

    /derail
     

    pilotguy299

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 26, 2010
    1,809
    FredNeck County, MD
    I understand that some in the General Assembly believed that pre Oct 1 purchases would be able to be picked up after Oct 1 without a HQL or qualifying exception, but it is not what was written in the law.

    If the MDSP really held that opinion all along, why didn't they include that provision it in their proposed COMAR:

    https://www.mdsp.org/Portals/0/Downloads/COMAR/29.03.01 Regulated Firearms (9-11-13).pdf

    And why did their FAQ page say otherwise until they changed it yesterday?
     

    EHS1976

    Active Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    194
    USA
    I've heard that contention before, but have to disagree.

    Look at WW2 Italy and Germany. We hear in the media that Mussolini and Hitler were right wing, but digging into their policies (fodder for another thread, another time) we see otherwise.

    We can agree to disagree. You're saying they were socialists or communists? Socialism and communism are on the left wing extreme of the political spectrum. Fascism is not the same as socialism or communism.
     

    River Mud

    Active Member
    Mar 19, 2013
    102
    NO, they don't. The MSP do not interpret the law. They do not get to choose who is charged under the States legal system. They get to enforce the lasws that the state legislature has passed. The Attorney General of the state decides how laws are going to be enforced (and if). The MSP can not do that legally. Just because the MSP are not going to enforce the law (right now) does not mean that the states attorney can not get somebody else to enforce it. It also does not mean that they will not enforce the law later, when it suits them (if they can arbitrarily decide to not enforce it, what is stopping them from changing their minds?)

    Got it. So they DON'T choose who is charged (or ticketed, or summoned) but they DO decide who not to charge, or ticket or summon. Sounds legit.

    Bottom line, MSP has discretion, and they are letting it fall 100% toward the side of the AG's office.
     

    webb297

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 29, 2010
    2,800
    Bowie
    Too many contradictions in your statement to address in detail but here goes:

    MSP charges all of the time, you must mean convictions, which are very different. :D

    No. Police can arrest you for a crime the see committed, or have evidence to prove happened like a witness, but they do not bring charges. The prosecutors decide that.

    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/charged-with-crime-how-29677.html

    doesn't MSP hold meetings with FFLs to discuss laws/regs? :D

    License revoked and jail for the FFL, that's worse than the average Joe who will most likely not lose their job. And with a good attorney, they'd most likely win with all of the confusion in this state. :D

    FFLs run their business based off direction (following the law/guidance give them). :D .

    Yes MSP does have meetings with FFLs and yes the FFLs do run their business off of MSPs direction. However in this case MSP direction is in clear violation of the written law, and without an AG document to validate its law enforcement position, it could end up being very bad info.

    Welcome to MDS, I will no longer be participating in your race to 50.
     

    tsmith1499

    Poor C&R Collector
    Jan 10, 2012
    4,253
    Southern Mount Airy, Md.
    question:

    you need to live fire to get a HQL

    and you need a HQL to rent a gun

    and if a gun is handed to you in training which you paid for, aren't you then renting a gun without having a HQL

    politicans are the worst people to pick for passing laws
    :sad20:

    This is INCORRECT. You DO NOT need a HQL to rent a gun as long as it stays on the premises of the establishment you are renting it from. I am not aware of anyone that"rents" guns to "take out".
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    Actually, I disagree. I believe fascism is on the extreme of the right wing side of the political spectrum. Maryland is anything but fascist if fascism is extreme right wing ideology.

    Your theory goes off the road and straight into the ditch with these four words: Paul and Nancy Pelosi.
     

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