AR SBRs, compact stocks, and OAL

rtruhn · Sep 6, 2015

Let me begin by stating that my searches haven't discovered a thread covering this, so please correct me if I'm wrong there.

Let me also say that I have no intention of disobeying the law but will not ask for an ATF opinion on the matter (I leave that to my betters, like Chad).

I have one AR SBR (Colt M4 w/ 11.5" barrel, 30.5" OAL) and will create another based on a current Engage E4 pistol lower (10.5" barrel, ultimately a 29.5 OAL with a traditional 6-position stock). I really like the idea of using the Troy PDW stock or other CCS system. The "compact" brings it out of OAL compliance, as they tend to be ~3" shorter when fully extended.

My hope is that I could run this on an SBR so long as I can return it to its "original configuration" (standard buffer tube, stock, buffer, BCG) bringing it back to 29+" OAL. Anyone have experience with this? Otherwise, it looks like a CCS only works with ~14.5 inch barrels, in which case one may as well simply put the stock on a lower paired with a 16" upper. Thoughts?

Pinecone · Sep 7, 2015

As long as you only have it in the short configuration outside of MD, you are fine.

But inside MD, it has to be at least 29" long.

rtruhn · Sep 7, 2015

You raise an excellent point. I hadn't fully connected the dots that OAL is MD but the "original configuration" construct is Federal law.

Looks like I have few options.

- Engage wins its lawsuit and SBRs are exempt from OAL restrictions.

- Put a CCS on an SBR-registered lower; pair it with a carbine-length upper in state, and doing the paperwork/travel out of state to use it as intended.

- Reserve a CCS for a new rimfire SBR where OAL does not apply,

What really sucks is that the one firearm I'd be willing to sell to fund other NFA purchases/builds is the Colt M4 SBR, which can't be sold in-state due to its lack of HBARity.

NateIU10 · Sep 7, 2015

rtruhn said:
You raise an excellent point. I hadn't fully connected the dots that OAL is MD but the "original configuration" construct is Federal law.

Looks like I have few options.

- Engage wins its lawsuit and SBRs are exempt from OAL restrictions.

- Put a CCS on an SBR-registered lower; pair it with a carbine-length upper in state, and doing the paperwork/travel out of state to use it as intended.

- Reserve a CCS for a new rimfire SBR where OAL does not apply,

What really sucks is that the one firearm I'd be willing to sell to fund other NFA purchases/builds is the Colt M4 SBR, which can't be sold in-state due to its lack of HBARity.

HBAR doesn't apply to SBRs

rtruhn · Sep 7, 2015

NateIU10 said:
HBAR doesn't apply to SBRs

Weird. I bought my M4 around to your own Engage a couple of years ago expressly to have the CCS installed - it wouldn't work because of the bar in the Colt LE lowers at the time. And they told me explicitly that I couldn't sell the M4 in-state because of its preban configuration - it could only be sold as parts, etc.

Has that been changed/clarified in the interim?

Any help, Nate, would be greatly appreciated. I can PM pictures. Would be happy to consider trades for an equal value in cans, etc.

NateIU10 · Sep 7, 2015

rtruhn said:
Weird. I bought my M4 around to your own Engage a couple of years ago expressly to have the CCS installed - it wouldn't work because of the bar in the Colt LE lowers at the time. And they told me explicitly that I couldn't sell the M4 in-state because of its preban configuration - it could only be sold as parts, etc.

Has that been changed/clarified in the interim?

Any help, Nate, would be greatly appreciated. I can PM pictures. Would be happy to consider trades for an equal value in cans, etc.

MSP has clarified. It's the same clarification that allowed SBR AKs and AK pistols post ban.

rtruhn · Sep 7, 2015

NateIU10 said:
MSP has clarified. It's the same clarification that allowed SBR AKs and AK pistols post ban.

Awesome! Thanks, Nate!

cap6888 · Sep 7, 2015

I wish the law suit would come to a winning conclusion. I have a M85 PAP and a 7.5 inch AR I would like to SBR without pinning anything, or having to do anything weird to make them meet OAL.

SCARCQB · Sep 7, 2015

Long SBRs suck. Curse Maryland!!!!!

Wayne1one · Sep 7, 2015

SCARCQB said:
Long SBRs suck. Curse Maryland!!!!!

This!

But you can run the CCS style stocks with a 12.5" upper and accomplish both (OAL compliance and CCS Stock on an SBR), I have a .300 blackout build coming in this configuration.

dontpanic · Sep 7, 2015

I finished my new build last night. With a NEA compact stock and a 14.5" barrel with a pinned and welded flash hider/mount. Length with stock collapsed is 29.5" and OAL is 32.75".

Doing the math, you can use a 11" barrel as long as your muzzle device is pinned and welded.

Of course, make sure all your components add up to 29" or greater.

antco · Sep 7, 2015

dontpanic: Keep an eye on the wear patterns of the hold-open notch against the mag release styled cross bolt. See here for pictures- http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=166601

dontpanic · Sep 7, 2015

antco said:
dontpanic: Keep an eye on the wear patterns of the hold-open notch against the mag release styled cross bolt. See here for pictures- http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=166601

Thanks for the advice. I certainly will.

dontpanic · Sep 7, 2015

I just looked at that thread. It seems they redesigned the hold open for the stock. At least it has more surface area and a different machining on the two stock rods.

I'll still keep an eye on it though.

antco · Sep 7, 2015

dontpanic said:
I just looked at that thread. It seems they redesigned the hold open for the stock. At least it has more surface area and a different machining on the two stock rods.

I'll still keep an eye on it though.

I sure hope they did. May your NEA stock last you many years and tens of thousands of rounds.

rtruhn · Sep 8, 2015

cap6888 said:
I wish the law suit would come to a winning conclusion. I have a M85 PAP and a 7.5 inch AR I would like to SBR without pinning anything, or having to do anything weird to make them meet OAL.

+1 on the M85. In fact, if the 9mm Glock conversion became a possibility and if 300 Blackout conversion is likewise doable, I would be at +3, come what may.

rtruhn · Sep 8, 2015

Wayne1one said:
This!

But you can run the CCS style stocks with a 12.5" upper and accomplish both (OAL compliance and CCS Stock on an SBR), I have a .300 blackout build coming in this configuration.

Well, perhaps, but I am trying to use what I have (10.5" Engage build). I had the bright idea of permanently attaching my sealed can, but end up a damn half-inch short of 16!

TheRealSundance · Sep 11, 2015

NateIU10 said:
MSP has clarified. It's the same clarification that allowed SBR AKs and AK pistols post ban.

What was the clarification?

AR SBRs, compact stocks, and OAL

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