Got my denials today on Form 4 SBRs, PO'd pre Oct. 1

Devil Dog · Dec 27, 2014

Got word that Mr. Clutter denied my Form 4s, filed in June via a Trust. Reason for denial was "State Law".

Here's the kicker: the SBRs were PO'd pre-Oct 1, 2013.
That is, I ordered the very SBRs themselves (not just some lower that I tried to have SBRd) before that date. The POs were included with the applications.

All the items are on the Handgun Roster.

Bbl lengths were all 10.5" with OAL over 29".

rico903 · Dec 27, 2014

That sucks and I don't see how they can deny them as SBR's are still being sold by MD LGS's. I'd give him a call and see what the real problem is. This guy seems to totally out of line with his denials.

swinokur · Dec 27, 2014

BATFE is horrible at training new examiners. When Shawn Cook was promoted, it looks like we started over as far as the examiner knowing what had transpired between MSP and BATFE before that as far as what MSP would allow. (ie OAL 29" or greater.)

Government efficiency at it's best.

NateIU10 · Dec 27, 2014

swinokur said:
BATFE is horrible at training new examiners. When Shawn Cook was promoted, it looks like we started over as far as the examiner knowing what had transpired between MSP and BATFE before that as far as what MSP would allow. (ie OAL 29" or greater.

Government efficiency at it's best.

Of concern was the fact that these denials were actually signed by Ted Clutter.

tom b · Dec 27, 2014

NateIU10 said:
Of concern was the fact that these denials were actually signed by Ted Clutter.

I received a "disapproved" form 1 on 12/23, signed by Ted Clutter. Clearly a mistake.

Weber · Dec 27, 2014

tom b said:
I received a "disapproved" form 1 on 12/23, signed by Ted Clutter. Clearly a mistake.

What was your form 1 for, SBR?

swinokur · Dec 27, 2014

tom b said:
I received a "disapproved" form 1 on 12/23, signed by Ted Clutter. Clearly a mistake.

Apparently Mr. Cook and Mr. Clutter didn't have enough of an information exchange to ascertain the information Mr. Cook got from MSP.when Clutter took over. This is so unprofessional IMO.

Govt. bureaucracy and inefficiency at it's best.

tom b · Dec 27, 2014

Weber said:
What was your form 1 for, SBR?

Yes, on a rifle that has been "approved" by MSP, and clearly is on their "Reviewed Firearms List".

tom b · Dec 27, 2014

swinokur said:
Apparently Mr. Cook and Mr. Clutter didn't have enough of an information exchange to ascertain the information Mr. Cook got from MSP.when Clutter took over. This is so unprofessional IMO.

Govt. bureaucracy and inefficiency at it's best.

I have an Attorney contacting them on my behalf on Monday.

NateIU10 · Dec 27, 2014

tom b said:
I received a "disapproved" form 1 on 12/23, signed by Ted Clutter. Clearly a mistake.

That's also the issue. It was not a "mistake" in that he meant to check approved but accidentally checked disapproved. They made a decision, based on their reading of the laws, that they should be disapproved. They may have backtracked for now, but it's concerning that it can change day to day.

NateIU10 · Dec 27, 2014

tom b said:
I have an Attorney contacting them on my behalf on Monday.

Do you mind sharing the attorney's name? You can PM if you don't want to post it. They may have some issues getting in touch with someone before the 4th of Jan with vacations.

SWO Daddy · Dec 27, 2014

Ugh...this is so frustrating.

SWO Daddy · Dec 27, 2014

Forgot to ask: what's the date on the disapproval?

Devil Dog · Dec 27, 2014

Date of application was June 13.
Date of denial was December 14.
6 months, almost to the day.

Yeah, this sux and is a PITA. I'll update folks on this as I progress.

I'm pretty slammed at work right now so I'm not sure I'll be able to turn to this until after the New Year (as others have pointed out, these gov guys are probably on leave until then anyway).

Thanks all!

bobthefisher · Dec 27, 2014

Good ol' Mr. Clutter, that man does NOT like dealing with MD apps from all the crap he got last time and is now quite rude to people. Since this was a paper submission perhaps this got time delayed a bit from the initial bulk disapprovals (hopefully) and we might start seeing some changes come the new year when everyone gets back to work.

We'll keep knocking, they can only ignore us for so long, especially since we know we're all in the right. I'm personally not giving up until this is resolved.

bobthefisher · Dec 27, 2014

Devil Dog said:
Date of application was June 13.
Date of denial was December 14.
6 months, almost to the day.

Yeah, this sux and is a PITA. I'll update folks on this as I progress.

I'm pretty slammed at work right now so I'm not sure I'll be able to turn to this until after the New Year (as others have pointed out, these gov guys are probably on leave until then anyway).

Thanks all!

Yup that was a similar date of my eForm denial a few weeks ago. Snail mail lag hopefully.

My Ruger 10/22 denial was on 12/12.

swinokur · Dec 27, 2014

Does the same examiner handle both eforms and paper forms?

bobthefisher · Dec 27, 2014

swinokur said:
Does the same examiner handle both eforms and paper forms?

It varies, just like everything else.

swinokur · Dec 27, 2014

I thought I read a thread that said the MD related stuff was going to one examiner because of all the Bravo Sierra associated with the MD law. That would only make it worse if numerous examiners are doing this, unless it's approved because they don't know better. :sad20:

Maybe not.

clandestine · Dec 27, 2014

Form 3s are taking forever too. Last one took 8 weeks. The NFA branch is a mess.

Got my denials today on Form 4 SBRs, PO'd pre Oct. 1

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