Pre 10/1/13 lower, SBR'ed pre 10/1/13 @ > 29" OAL - Can I make it < 29" OAL?

jason.krywicki · Dec 22, 2014

I have an SBR'ed AR-15 lower on a Form 1 that indicates that the SBR as built is > 29". My question is because it is a pre-10/1/13 SBR, can I put an upper on it that would cause it to be < 29" OAL or is that "building" a new firearm?

Thanks,
Jason

TyFromMD · Dec 22, 2014

Sounds to me like you already made the NFA item before 10/1/13. I am not a lawyer

jason.krywicki · Dec 22, 2014

I did make it before 10/1/13, but the Form 1 shows it made > 29". So the question is because it is a totally pre-ban SBR can I put it into a configuration that is < 29"?

Wayne1one · Dec 22, 2014

jason.krywicki said:
I have an SBR'ed AR-15 lower on a Form 1 that indicates that the SBR as built is > 29". My question is because it is a pre-10/1/13 SBR, can I put an upper on it that would cause it to be < 29" OAL or is that "building" a new firearm?

Thanks,
Jason

This has been covered in other threads, merely switching around uppers is not building a new firearm. Your SBR was built whenever you got your stamp approved. You can reconfigure your SBR as you please, if you make permanent changes you have to notify the NFA. Some might have different opinions so it will ultimately be your decision to do what you feel comfortable doing.

Devil Dog · Jan 2, 2015

I believe that, the way MSP is interpreting the law, you can NOT do that. Unless your SBR also had the characteristics of a Copycat Weapon, then you can't now build a Copycat Weapon. The fact that it was an NFA weapon is not in itself relevant for Maryland.

swinokur · Jan 2, 2015

jason.krywicki said:
I did make it before 10/1/13, but the Form 1 shows it made > 29". So the question is because it is a totally pre-ban SBR can I put it into a configuration that is < 29"?

No one really knows. But as pointed out, just putting an upper on a lower isn't "making" anything.

The fact that it was approved before 10-1 IMO would allow you to do what you want but IANAL.

I had a lower that I had SBR'd after 10-1 with a 10.5 inch upper. To be safe I built a 300 BLK upper at 10.5 too just to be safe.

But mine was approved by BATFE afdter 10-1.

jason.krywicki · Jan 2, 2015

Ok, so complete opposite opinions. My guess is that MSP would have to weigh in with an opinion. We know that is fraught with danger and will be up to how they feel like interpreting it that day. It's like asking the ATF for an opinion...

jason.krywicki · Jan 2, 2015

Devil Dog said:
I believe that, the way MSP is interpreting the law, you can NOT do that. Unless your SBR also had the characteristics of a Copycat Weapon, then you can't now build a Copycat Weapon. The fact that it was an NFA weapon is not in itself relevant for Maryland.

This SBR was on an approved Form 1 from 2011. Copycat wasn't a term in existence at that point.

swinokur · Jan 2, 2015

That's how I see it. You possessed the firearm before 10-1. It can't be a copycat and just putting an upper on an approved pre 10-1 lower doesn't make it a copycat in your case IMO. Both MSP and BATF had approved it.

IANAL however. Asking MSP for an opinion is a bad idea.How do you think they will answer?

jason.krywicki · Jan 2, 2015

Oh I agree asking MSP is always a bad idea and will most likely result in an answer that isn't what you had hoped for. It's also not in my interest to become a legal test case either.

I'll stick to greater than 29".

swinokur · Jan 2, 2015

Smart move IMO.

NateIU10 · Jan 2, 2015

You did not possess a copycat before 10/1 if it was always in a configuration over 29" in OaL. If it were ever in a copycat configuration before 10/1 (ie under 29") you would, in my not legal advice, be perfectly fine to do so again.

SWO Daddy · Jan 2, 2015

NateIU10 said:
You did not possess a copycat before 10/1 if it was always in a configuration over 29" in OaL. If it were ever in a copycat configuration before 10/1 (ie under 29") you would, in my not legal advice, be perfectly fine to do so again.

Agree. To put it another way - it would be impossible for the state to determine that you didn't have it in a copycat configuration before the law took effect, but since you've documented that being the case in a public forum - you're screwed.

ETA: IANAL

Devil Dog · Jan 3, 2015

jason.krywicki said:
This SBR was on an approved Form 1 from 2011. Copycat wasn't a term in existence at that point.

True but irrelevant.

You didn't have, prior to 10/1/13, what is NOW called a Copycat.

If you go under 29" inches you would be making a Copycat, which is NOW illegal (at least as far as MSP is concerned).

While you would not be making a new SBR under NFA (and you'd be fine doing so in states that don't have a law like Maryland's), that doesn't matter. There are two totally separate regimes (Fed and Maryland) whose laws rule here.

You would be violating Maryland's (at least until the courts rule that the Copycat provisions don't apply to SBRs, which are handguns).

So, in my opinion, you'd be putting yourself at risk.

But like my friend and fellow lawyer Nate states, I'm not offering you legal advice. I'm just expressing my opinion based on 20 years in the law. :cool:

Pre 10/1/13 lower, SBR'ed pre 10/1/13 @ > 29" OAL - Can I make it < 29" OAL?

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