auction rant

BlackBart · May 12, 2015

erwos said:
If you are looking for something specific that's uncommon, there's really no getting away from using the Internet, unfortunately.

Gunbroker's "no listing fee" policy is really what drives the idiocy on there. You have a lot of sellers just relisting stuff with stupid prices OVER AND OVER without any downside to them. Even a minimal relisting fee would clean that place up really quick.

And with mechanical wonders like guns they're somewhat unique. If I can't touch, feel, taste, smell and dryfire it I'm probably not going to buy a specific gun on the net, that's just me.... go to the auction and examine it myself. Pictures and descriptions all too often leave a lot to be desired. Auctionzip is great... so are live in person auctions IMO.

Garbage like a ugly Russian bolt or 1916 Spanish mauser in 308.... dime a dozen so why not.

somd_mustangs · May 12, 2015

Having been on the "other side" of this....

for a "little guy" seller with a rare and expensive item, starting at a $1 or whatever is a recipe for disaster. it has rarely worked out for me.
People like folk-fan, JTD, Grey Blanket, etc with a lot of volume can afford to lose on one or two auctions, knowing they'll make it up on others.
They also have a following which is hard to do as an occasional seller.

I'll agree if you have a relatively cheap item a $1 start is a no-brainer and you'll probably do ok.

Conversely, setting a starting bid or buy now for a fair price (truly fair, not pumped up) seldom seems to work... why? because...

Buyers expect to see stupid low starting bids. That's the bottom line. They get pissed and bent out of shape if a seller isn't losing their shirt.

For all the complaining about poor pics and descriptions, I consistently see people bidding on those listings and ignoring the ones with clear, sharp pics of everything and a good lengthy writeup.
I suppose they expect to steal a bargain hidden by the bad pics.
Sometimes that's the case, but most often not.

end of my rant.

...as to reserve auctions, I'm fine with them as long as the reserve is reasonable.
Even if it's not, so what. I bid what I think it's worth and if it's not enough, move on.
They can generate bidding excitement and protect the seller from taking it in the shorts.
The problem is, as mentioned already, reserves typically aren't reasonable so it ruins it for the rest of us that would like to protect ourselves :sad20:

Since so many people hate them, I will always at least look and watch.
Sometimes, as mentioned earlier, a seller will reveal the reserve but it's bad form to ask directly.

Don't bother with a certain pawn shop in Delano, FL.
Those reserves are stupid high.

Doctor_M · May 13, 2015

By in large they annoy me too, but I have used it to my advantage a few times. When you see a gun come up time and time again without being sold or hitting the reserve, put in a bid for what you want to pay even if you know it won't sell. After a few times of seeing that Dr. M is willing to pay 700 for said item, a few astute sellers will adjust their reserves down and sooner or later you may catch it in your range.

You have to a pretty dispassionate bidder to use this strategy, but most of the time, I'm bargain hunting on line anyway, so if I don't get it at my price, c'est la vie.

mawkie · May 13, 2015

Agreed concerning reserves that are reasonably set. What really gets my goat is the secret double probation reserve where it's unannounced and unreasonably high. Nothing p*sses me off more than putting in a good faith bid only to be told "Oh by the way, there's a reserve on this lot". No harm but just annoying as all get out.

mdram · May 13, 2015

its the unknown reserve i am speaking of

just put the opening bid at what you want and be done, much easier and clearer

Machodoc · May 13, 2015

mawkie said:
Agreed concerning reserves that are reasonably set. What really gets my goat is the secret double probation reserve where it's unannounced and unreasonably high. Nothing p*sses me off more than putting in a good faith bid only to be told "Oh by the way, there's a reserve on this lot".

The only thing that annoys me more than that is to send a seller a note, asking if he'll share the reserve so that I'll know whether to bother following the auction or not, and have them send back some coy little response as if they are terribly clever about conducting an auction.

When that happens, the auction no longer exists for me. I agree that if you aren't willing to take a risk on what the current market is willing to pay, just set the opening bid at what you are willing to take. If there's a fool out there, they won't know that's close to the market value anyway.

sxs · May 13, 2015

I actually made a couple purchases on online auctions where I didn't hit the reserve, but did hit close enough that the seller came back to me to talk. Happened a couple times with firearms, and several times with other items including items on Ebay. Also, I inquired about a reserve on an Gunbroker auction my max bid failed to make, and haggled out a price below the reserve but just a bit above my max bid that I and the seller were OK with. Done that twice with live auctions as well, but those items weren't firearms. what I hate most about many auctions is the way bids get hammered at the last minute, only to see the item relist later. To be fair to firearms sellers, this happens much more often on Ebay than firearms auctions, but it happens often enough that I suspect that some have a second ID or a shill bidder trying to drive prices upward. Auctions can be such a hassle that I have a preference for GunsAmerica over GunBroker for just that reason.

sxs · May 13, 2015

Doctor_M said:
By in large they annoy me too, but I have used it to my advantage a few times. When you see a gun come up time and time again without being sold or hitting the reserve, put in a bid for what you want to pay even if you know it won't sell. After a few times of seeing that Dr. M is willing to pay 700 for said item, a few astute sellers will adjust their reserves down and sooner or later you may catch it in your range.

You have to a pretty dispassionate bidder to use this strategy, but most of the time, I'm bargain hunting on line anyway, so if I don't get it at my price, c'est la vie.

And as I said in my previous comment, I had a few sellers come right back to me to try to haggle a bit and I actually made a couple purchases.

kkiley · May 16, 2015

I agree with somd mustangs and sxs I'm watching 35 GB auctions ,none have a reserve I assume when I see a reserve the seller is usually trying to protect their investment but there are some like the gander mtn in NC that keeps relisting a collection of M1 carbines at double or triple the going prices maybe GB should to do like ebay and gun auction (auctionarms)and allow second chance offers I've won several like this, my rant thanks kevin

mawkie · May 18, 2015

Oh there are plenty of GB auctions that have been "recycling" for YEARS now due to outrageous reserves. somd_mustangs and I both would love to see GB drop the listings for a certain pawn shop dealer in Deland FL. While the grey blanket lures out bidders the marble counter he uses is an effective bidding repellent. Don't think I've every seen anyone meet one of his reserves. Gotta wonder how long he's willing to sit on that much equity.

TomisinMd · May 18, 2015

I must see this grey blanket!!

Abulg1972 · May 18, 2015

TomisinMd said:
I must see this grey blanket!!

I like to call it the Grey Blanket of Copenhagen.

good guy 176 · May 18, 2015

Machodoc said:
The only thing that annoys me more than that is to send a seller a note, asking if he'll share the reserve so that I'll know whether to bother following the auction or not, and have them send back some coy little response as if they are terribly clever about conducting an auction.

When that happens, the auction no longer exists for me. I agree that if you aren't willing to take a risk on what the current market is willing to pay, just set the opening bid at what you are willing to take. If there's a fool out there, they won't know that's close to the market value anyway.

I am a seller on GunBroker and I agree with the comments here about Reserves and .01 starting prices. What I am finding, however, is that my sales have not been stellar on GB, have been an active seller for only a few months.

Currently, I have a decent International Harvester and a Springfield Armory Garand active with zero bids, even though both, I feel, are reasonably priced, under $1200. The SA is a nice Jan 1944 with correct barrel and a SA/GAW cartouched stock, and the IHC, as we know, is harder to find.

What I am capitalizing on, however, are sales from buyers who have seen my rifles on GB, contacted me before any bids were placed and made an offer. As a result, I've been able to cancel five auctions and sell FTF locally.

I sell as Good Guy 176, am a member of two AGC clubs, and am a retired Army veteran with 1,100 flight hours over II and II Corps in Vietnam.

Lew--Ranger63

jhcrab · May 18, 2015

good guy 176 said:
I am a seller on GunBroker and I agree with the comments here about Reserves and .01 starting prices. What I am finding, however, is that my sales have not been stellar on GB, have been an active seller for only a few months.

Currently, I have a decent International Harvester and a Springfield Armory Garand active with zero bids, even though both, I feel, are reasonably priced, under $1200. The SA is a nice Jan 1944 with correct barrel and a SA/GAW cartouched stock, and the IHC, as we know, is harder to find.

What I am capitalizing on, however, are sales from buyers who have seen my rifles on GB, contacted me before any bids were placed and made an offer. As a result, I've been able to cancel five auctions and sell FTF locally.

I sell as Good Guy 176, am a member of two AGC clubs, and am a retired Army veteran with 1,100 flight hours over II and II Corps in Vietnam.

Lew--Ranger63

I was not aware that I could negotiate directly with the GB sellers. Good to know.

somd_mustangs · May 18, 2015

TomisinMd said:
I must see this grey blanket!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=208042

jhcrab said:
I was not aware that I could negotiate directly with the GB sellers. Good to know.

It's kind of bad form.
And even though GB doesn't provide a whole lot of help if things go south, there is a little more protection using them vice doing a private deal.
The few times I've "worked a deal on the side" it's gone south.
But, results may vary.

From a seller perspective, the GB fees are very reasonable compared to any auction house or EvilPay.

QuebecoisWolf · May 18, 2015

My last Gunbroker auction was a nerve-wracking experience due to someone who made eight bids of $1-10 (on an $800-$1000 item) in the last moments of the auction, including one that happened with less than ten seconds remaining. None of them even came close to my max bid, but they drove the price of the gun up by about $60.

I continue to wonder which of the following was true:

1. The sniper was a newbie who didn't understand how autobid works.

2. The sniper assumed that I was a newbie who didn't know how autobid works.

3. The seller was using a sock puppet account to nudge up the price and prolong the auction while keeping it at the top of the listings in the hopes of attracting more bidders.

I really, really hate to think that it was number three, but it's been a problem on EBay and I'm sure that there are unscrupulous sellers doing it on Gunbroker.

somd_mustangs · May 18, 2015

It happens a lot.
Mostly #1, not realizing each bid extends the auction another 15 minutes and putting on their eBay sniper-hat.
#2 strategy is just to wear you out. I had one guy do that to me for 4 hours.
He'd wait til the last second and put in a minimum bid. and repeat.

Melnic · May 18, 2015

Is it that the seller can opt to use the 15 minute rule or is that automatic?
I would say that as a bidder, its not very advantageous to bid early. I only do it if I know I can't bid at the last moment. Sniping is effective so that you bid your max bid at the end before people can change their minds and increase the bid. 15 minute rule is to the seller's advantage.
One can rant all you want about sniping or small incremental bids, but if it does not violate a rule, you have to deal with it or don't play the game.
If the seller had a stooge, they would have in my opinion made one bid somewhere below yours and left it at that.
I agree that if you have a 15 minute rule, they will try to wear you out. Hoping you can't stay on line for hours.

erwos · May 18, 2015

It is basically never to the bidder's advantage to bid early on an unknown-value auction (which is de facto what these used gun auctions are), especially with the 15 minute rule. At a minimum, bidding reveals that you think the gun is worth at least $X, which might be valuable information to someone who has less complete valuation information. at least on GB, your best bet might be to bid your max at 16 minutes (to avoid triggering the 15 minute delay).

Now, on a commodity with a known price, like a new gun or accessory, bidding early might make sense, since you're not giving anything away, and you get to be the first person to inhabit the price point.

The one change I'd make to the 15 minute rule is to not extend the clock if the new bid is below the currently-winning max bid. The way I understand it, GB always extends in the last fifteen minutes with any bid. The way the rule is implemented now encourages people not to put in their max bids, which draws out the whole stupid process.

somd_mustangs · May 18, 2015

erwos said:
It is basically never to the bidder's advantage to bid early on an unknown-value auction (which is de facto what these used gun auctions are), especially with the 15 minute rule. At a minimum, bidding reveals that you think the gun is worth at least $X, which might be valuable information to someone who has less complete valuation information. at least on GB, your best bet might be to bid your max at 16 minutes (to avoid triggering the 15 minute delay).

dat's what I do... you always run the risk of exposing a gun sliding under the radar by bidding early

One exception is if it's a relatively low opening bid and no bids are placed, it's smart to make one to keep the seller from closing the auction.
and/or working the side-deals mentioned above.

erwos said:
Now, on a commodity with a known price, like a new gun or accessory, bidding early might make sense, since you're not giving anything away, and you get to be the first person to inhabit the price point.

The one change I'd make to the 15 minute rule is to not extend the clock if the new bid is below the currently-winning max bid. <that is a superb idea that I wish GB would adopt>

The way I understand it, GB always extends in the last fifteen minutes with any bid. <that is correct>
The way the rule is implemented now encourages people not to put in their max bids, which draws out the whole stupid process.<that is also correct>

Thus it is literally impossible to "snipe".
All you can do with repeating this strategy on an auction is piss the other bidder(s) off to the point they will never let you win.
Then again, GB has a tendency to lock up unexpectedly ...

Another unintended consequence of the attempt at sniping on GB is it allows other folks to jump in when they see some action taking place.
In essence, it's just stupid to do it intentionally and usually it's the "noobs" doing it.

Auction Arms works the same way but it's a 10 minute extension.

This method is about the closest you can get on the internet to a live auction format.

the eBay "final time is final time" way is actually the method that's more beneficial to the seller, due to the sniping crap.
People throw crazy bids over there since it's the only way to assure that you'll win.
That's not how a live auction works.
I've grown to despise that site as both a seller and a buyer and typically will only use the BuyNow auctions.

some great rants...

auction rant

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