Spent shell case program in the Capital paper today

John from MD · Mar 1, 2015

The article talks about how the program is not working and how several pols have submitted bills to try and close it. They discussed the reason for it not working as the imaging machine broke in 2007 and now all cases are stored by hand.

No one ever mentions that it won't work if the gun owner changes various parts of the gun.

This may be a good opportunity for someone to write a letter to the editor making the case for closing down the program. I'm sure the general public doesn't realize that changing a firing pin or extractor or filing the breach face or ejector can make the case look different.

It would have to be someone who writes logically using his head and not his gut (that leaves me out). :rolleyes:

John

danb · Mar 1, 2015

link?

hodgepodge · Mar 1, 2015

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/ph-ac-cn-shell-casing-20150301,0,4874803.story

Previous comments address the state's inefficiency in buying a multi-million dollar system that doesn't work.

I added:
This system will never work like it does on TV, with an automated match before the commercial. Let's not believe the hype.

The matches mentioned were from a spent casing to a known handgun. It can answer the question "Did this gun fire this cartridge?" It cannot answer the question "Of all the guns registered in Maryland, which one fired this bullet?" It never has and it never will.

The first question could be answered upon recovery of a suspected gun, without burdening lawful gun owners.

Not mentioned in the story is that this can be made completely ineffective for under $20. To change the firing pin is relatively easy in a modern gun. This will completely change the impression made when firing. I've done this in a gun Any fired casing will not match the casing submitted at purchase. If the casing could be found.

Revolvers, of course, do not leave fired shell casings behind. They remain in the gun upon firing. Still, a fired casing is required at time of purchase.

It's time to do away with this requirement.

Bob A · Mar 1, 2015

No one ever mentions that it's never been used to actually solve a crime. 26 hits since the program began.

Meanwhile, the MSP guy in charge of the program has this to say, from the article:

Daniel Katz, the state police forensic sciences director, says the program needs changes, including more storage space and better education for law enforcement professionals.

"How can you put a cost to solving any crime?" Katz said. "It has the potential to be more effective."

Millions of dollars, zero utility. This guy needs to go. The state needs his salary for someone who can solve a crime.

Jack McCauley · Mar 1, 2015

Despite the failure of the shell casing tracking system and the removal, long ago, of equipment that cost Maryland taxpayers millions of dollars, we are still requiring firearm dealers to submit a spent shell casing to the Maryland State Police Crime Lab for every new gun sale.
This regulation is time consuming for the dealers, the State Police Crime Lab, the State Police Licensing Division and State Auditors who have routinely monitored the program.
The Firearms Safety Act of 2013 allowed additional funding for 4 Technicians to be added to the Maryland State Police Crime Lab to continue with the implementation of this defunct system. The additional annual cost is estimated at $123,700.00.
Meanwhile, there are thousands of criminal cases that could be solved if their time were spent examining other evidence within the Crime Lab.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Right-Focus/700124650066824?ref=hl

Abacab · Mar 1, 2015

I am shocked the guy who loves this thing used to work at the ATF. Shocked!

Mega · Mar 1, 2015

Amazing.
Throw more money at a failed program. smh

BUFF7MM · Mar 1, 2015

Mega said:
Amazing.
Throw more money at a failed program. smh

It's the Maryland way, they've been doing stuff this way for so long it just the natural thing for them to do.

Jim12 · Mar 1, 2015

It's surprising and disappointing that Wes Adams, the new Anne Arundel States Attorney that replaced Leitess, spoke in favor of it. Hopefully he'll reconsider.

"Anne Arundel County State's Attorney Wes Adams said he supports the program. Keeping a catalog of test-fired casings can help solve crimes and generate leads, Adams said.

"When casings are available for forensic analysis, they are an essential piece of evidence in these types of prosecutions," he wrote. Repealing the program " would hinder our ability to identify shell casings found at crime scenes and match them to suspects." "

Aquaholic · Mar 1, 2015

If it's such a wonderful program then I suggest posing the question: How many states required a fired case for this purpose at time of purchase? If it's such a great program that solves so many crimes and is worth dumping millions upon millions of dollars into wouldn't it be required in all 50 States? :innocent0

brownspotz · Mar 1, 2015

it may only prove that a firearm was used in a crime and hopefully someone didn't change the barrel nor can it prove who pulled the trigger. way to go maryland! this state amazes me with its low IQ.

Mark75H · Mar 2, 2015

brownspotz said:
it may only prove that a firearm was used in a crime and hopefully someone didn't change the barrel nor can it prove who pulled the trigger. way to go maryland! this state amazes me with its low IQ.

This examines the spent case, not the bullet.

Changing the barrel would do nothing, this is about the firing pin imprint on the primer which, even with the same firing pin, is less consistent than rifling marks on bullets.

Inconsistent action on the trigger, spring tension on the firing pin, normal wear on the pin, bolt face, barrel breech, dirt in the firing pin channel and different ammo can all make a later shell different from the retained exemplar.

The concept itself is flawed, not just the program.

mxrider · Mar 2, 2015

Jim12 said:
It's surprising and disappointing that Wes Adams, the new Anne Arundel States Attorney that replaced Leitess, spoke in favor of it. Hopefully he'll reconsider.

"Anne Arundel County State's Attorney Wes Adams said he supports the program. Keeping a catalog of test-fired casings can help solve crimes and generate leads, Adams said.

"When casings are available for forensic analysis, they are an essential piece of evidence in these types of prosecutions," he wrote. Repealing the program " would hinder our ability to identify shell casings found at crime scenes and match them to suspects." "

This is actually disappointing to me as I helped with his campaign on a very small level. I will be touching base with him on this.

Mr H · Mar 2, 2015

mxrider said:
This is actually disappointing to me as I helped with his campaign on a very small level. I will be touching base with him on this.

I've helped/spoken some with Wes during the campaign as well... If I had to guess, I would say that he spoke before researching the issue.

mxrider · Mar 2, 2015

Mr H said:
I've helped/spoken some with Wes during the campaign as well... If I had to guess, I would say that he spoke before researching the issue.

That is my hope. I'll report back once I can gather some info and touch base with him.

smdub · Mar 2, 2015

Mark75H said:
This examines the spent case, not the bullet.

Changing the barrel would do nothing, ...

The machining marks in the chamber leave marks on the case when it swells. The barrel, bolt/breech, and firing pin all leave marks. All can be polished/changed.

Though your comment is applicable to a revolver

MikeTF · Mar 2, 2015

No where else in the country is a system like this used, or has ever been successful. Maryland jumped in with both feet and failed miserably. Pure science fiction.

JTH20 · Mar 2, 2015

It sounds like this program is like similar programs, good intentions but terrible implementation and an inconvenience on law abiding gun owners.

danb · Mar 2, 2015

MikeTF said:
No where else in the country is a system like this used, or has ever been successful. Maryland jumped in with both feet and failed miserably. Pure science fiction.

I think CA and NY at some point tried this.

When I researched this there is a hard to find CA DOJ study where they used ~800 guns. The marks are not just a function of the gun, they are also a function of the ammo. When different ammo is used from that used to fire the shell case, there is a very low match rate (40%).

Mark75H · Mar 2, 2015

I wonder what the match rate would be on a gun 500 rounds later

These cases are all from brand new guns with only factory test firing correct?

Spent shell case program in the Capital paper today

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