Help Change Maryland CCW Law

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    ALBY

    Active Member
    Jan 5, 2008
    652
    Welcome to the forum Mr Hansel.
     

    OrangeSpear

    NRA Member
    Feb 4, 2010
    503
    Owings Mills
    so do yall think its worth me trying to apply anyways?


    (if this isn't the appropriate place to talk about this I can take this to a different thread)
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    My office is interested in speaking with individuals who have applied for and been denied CCW permits in Maryland in the last three years. If you qualify and are interested in the potential to obtain your permit under today's decision in the Chicago case, please feel free to contact me.

    Our efforts will be pro bono unless the Court orders the State to pay our fees. In other words, no fee will be charged to those who respond under any circumstances.

    Best regards,

    Cary Hansel
    Joseph, Greenwald & Laake, P.A.
    6404 Ivy Lane, Suite 400
    Greenbelt, Maryland 20904
    301-220-2200 (phone)
    301-220-1214 (facsimile)

    Called your office and left all my info with the polite young lady.

    Already permitted as a non-resident of FL

    Squeaky clean

    Bad news: haven't applied/been turned down for a CCW in the last 3 years.

    We all know it's just a waste of $75 :mad54:
     

    miles71

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jul 19, 2009
    2,522
    Belcamp, Md.
    A thought, would it be a good idea to fight the restrictions on the permits first? It seems to me Md could say "but we do grant permits so whats you problem?' but the restrictions seem wrong at this point. Why should my permit be different than yours under due process?

    It also seems to me if Md restrictions are found to be a bad thing and they are lifted to all with CCW permits the MSP would have to issue new permit cards. This would open the door to self defense being a good and substaintial reasonl.

    Just thinking.
    TD
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    A thought, would it be a good idea to fight the restrictions on the permits first? It seems to me Md could say "but we do grant permits so whats you problem?' but the restrictions seem wrong at this point. Why should my permit be different than yours under due process?

    It also seems to me if Md restrictions are found to be a bad thing and they are lifted to all with CCW permits the MSP would have to issue new permit cards. This would open the door to self defense being a good and substaintial reasonl.

    Just thinking.
    TD

    I'm just a name. Certainly I may discuss that or basic strategy with the attorney; however, he's the tactician.
     

    Trapper

    I'm a member too.
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,369
    Western AA county
    A thought, would it be a good idea to fight the restrictions on the permits first? It seems to me Md could say "but we do grant permits so whats you problem?' but the restrictions seem wrong at this point. Why should my permit be different than yours under due process?

    It also seems to me if Md restrictions are found to be a bad thing and they are lifted to all with CCW permits the MSP would have to issue new permit cards. This would open the door to self defense being a good and substaintial reasonl.

    Just thinking.
    TD

    My only problem with your line of thinking is that it allows the State to continue charging us for, and issuing "permit"s for a fundamental civil right. I don't need a permit to speak my mind or practice my religion, why do I need one to exercise my 2nd ammendment rights?
    Those whose "religion" is harmful of children and others are prosecuted for such violations, but there is no permit for the exercise of religion.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    My only problem with your line of thinking is that it allows the State to continue charging us for, and issuing "permit"s for a fundamental civil right. I don't need a permit to speak my mind or practice my religion, why do I need one to exercise my 2nd ammendment rights?
    Those whose "religion" is harmful of children and others are prosecuted for such violations, but there is no permit for the exercise of religion.

    Good point - but how about administrative costs associated with permitting - weeding out the nut cases, etc?
     

    Trapper

    I'm a member too.
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,369
    Western AA county
    Good point - but how about administrative costs associated with permitting - weeding out the nut cases, etc?

    I see that as something tax money should cover. Our taxes are supposed to be used to provide basic services (police, fire, building codes, etc) and administer the government. I'd much rather have my tax money paying for the maintenance of a "prohibited persons" list than paying for some lazy bastich to sit on their ass all day.
    Also, if there were no permits needed, there would be no administrative cost to permitting. The $10 MSP fee for the background check is already collected for that "service" at the purchase of a firearm, why do we need another background check for carry? If you can't be trusted to carry, you can't be trusted to own.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    I see that as something tax money should cover. Our taxes are supposed to be used to provide basic services (police, fire, building codes, etc) and administer the government. I'd much rather have my tax money paying for the maintenance of a "prohibited persons" list than paying for some lazy bastich to sit on their ass all day.
    Also, if there were no permits needed, there would be no administrative cost to permitting. The $10 MSP fee for the background check is already collected for that "service" at the purchase of a firearm, why do we need another background check for carry? If you can't be trusted to carry, you can't be trusted to own.

    Again - I tend to agree; however: hunting, fishing license . . .
     

    Trapper

    I'm a member too.
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,369
    Western AA county
    Again - I tend to agree; however: hunting, fishing license . . .

    Hunting and fishing aren't Fundamental Civil Rights. Aside from that, those licenses allow the department of fish and game (or whatever MD calls it if that isn't it) to track the use of, and prevent damage to those natural resources. Self defense is an individual resource. :)

    To be clear, I think Vermont, Alaska, and now Arizona style is the way to go. Personally I like the idea of open carry, everyone sees what everyone has and knows where they stand. Like locks, I believe this keeps honest folks honest and deters criminals, forcing them to look for a softer target.

    I am enjoying the discussion, thanks.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    Just pointing out my taxes pay for everything and I still have to pay extra for fishing, etc. They won't approach this any differently.

    MSP - they are insanely stupid when it comes to arms.

    Was talking to 2 - one of whom I know well.

    They "train" twice a year. Actually the only qualify. I laughed in their faces. I train more in a month than they do in 2 years.

    So after establishing the objection (training), I asked if training was standardized - CCW.

    NOPE!

    They just don't want to recognize the RKBA applies to anyone but them.

    Fascism - and no I am not joking! :mad54:
     

    Trapper

    I'm a member too.
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,369
    Western AA county
    I agree with you on that point Shooter, I don't think they'll approach it any differently. They will soak folks for all they can, for as long as they can.

    I'm just thinking this will be another case for SAF - "how much should a fundamental right cost?"

    Looking at the last 2 years, I think they are lining that case up already.

    -- update: I just sent the SAF a message from their website laying out the discussion, giving them the web-site, and letting them know that I'm hopeful that someone is looking into this. I understand strategy shouldn't be given away, but I'm hoping they'll at least give me a "we're working on it".
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    My God, I hope so. The F'n MSP will be eating SHIT and I'll be laughing so long I'll need a doctor.

    I think it is more the AG than the MSP. They are just enforcing the laws. My experience with getting my permit was very positive. The troopers I dealt couldn't have been nicer, or more helpful. They even had the secretary at the barracks notarize my application for free. The trooper who did the background checking was great. He told me he was going to recommend I get it, talked about a few pistols he liked for CCW, and recommended a couple of courses to take. They all seemed pro-CCW.
     

    miles71

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jul 19, 2009
    2,522
    Belcamp, Md.
    While I agree a fundamental right should not cost us money, I do not think it will come to this in Md anytime soon if ever. Free speech is "free" but you have to have a permit to organize an event of free speech, religion is "free" but unless you are in your place of worship you have to have a permit to congregate. Defending oneself is a "free" right, but I have no problem with some LE Organization checking out everyone who wants to CCW.

    I think going after the current system and changing it internally might be a good way to bring about change in the long run. My experience getting my CCW was also very pleasant and professional. What really surprised me was how few people apply.

    TD
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    This is a legal rally, proper approvals were submitted weeks ago.

    If I may ask, what are your restrictions to concealed carry? Don't you think anyone that stands up to the same scrutiny and passes as you should have the right to carry? This is not always the case, the who's allowed is very arbitrary.
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    I think going after the current system and changing it internally might be a good way to bring about change in the long run. My experience getting my CCW was also very pleasant and professional. What really surprised me was how few people apply.

    TD

    I know this was not your intent but your statement kind of comes off as MD Government spin. While it may be true that the vast majority of applications are approved, it is also true that the criteria for a successful application are very narrow. People do not apply because they realize that you must qualify on employment (generally), retired LEO, or (rarely) personal protection based on an elevated threat level. With the information we have, some permits do get issued to housewives, gun collectors and some other oddities but they are just that - oddities.
     

    edhallor

    Active Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    749
    Aberdeen
    Hi,
    Don't apply to me, I was a Police Sergeant for 35 years in Baltimore and have my Permit. Just wanted to let you know that I strongly support the right to carry for Law abiding citizens. I would however strongly advise passing a Firearms Safety Course for anyone wishing to carry. I say that not to hamper your efforts but to point out that I have seen even trained Police shoot the wrong person and even themselves. Killing a person is a hard thing to live with, shooting yourself I imagine is even worse. I have also heard of many Police shooting a child with a toy gun in a "Shoot, Don't Shoot Simulation"
    There must be a Book of Cardinal Rules.
    1. If you are not directly targeted, do not intervene, that is why you hire Police.
    2. Practice and be able to hit your Target, remember the bad guys shoot back.
    3. If you point a gun at someone be prepared to kill them, and suffer the consequences.
    4. Be prepared, even Police have their Weapons taken and used against them.
    And so on. If I can be of any help let me know,
    Ed O'Halloran
    edhallor@comcast.net
     
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