Court Case Flow

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  • Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,867
    AA County
    With the help of some of our members with legal knowledge (you know who they are! :thumbsup: ), I put together this graphic to show how a case can flow through the judicial process. The effort was to capture the most basic process and not to get wrapped around the axle with the various permutations of filings, hearings, submittals, appeals, etc.

    I hope that this stimulates discussion and helps individuals understand the flow of the process that we all live under.


    Enjoy...


    .
     

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    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,867
    AA County
    If we look at the system as 3 stages with Stage 1 being the District Court, Stage 2 being the Circuit Court (and its reviews) and the Stage 3 being the Supreme Court, one can track the current cases through the system.

    Woollard is awaiting the appeal hearings at the Circuit Court. If one is to consider the possibility of going all the way to the Supreme Court, Woollard is less than half way through the process.

    More later as I can.
     

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,867
    AA County
    "Shooo, shoo away little bird.

    No one needs you hanging around and cr@ping on on our freshly washed car."
     

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,867
    AA County
    Let me give you my thoughts on our legal system
    Whoever has the most money hires the best lawyer and wins.

    So much for discussion

    I'm sure I am not alone in my assessment of your first post.

    Please, do add to a useful discussion on the flow of cases through the court system, financial adequacy or inadequacy adds little, if any, to the discussion.

    Edit: I am sure that the District of Columbia, the City of Chicago and the State of Maryland each had more funds available then McDonald, Heller and Woollard.
     
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    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    I'm sure I am not alone in my assessment of your first post.

    Please, do add to a useful discussion on the flow of cases through the court system, financial adequacy or inadequacy adds little, if any, to the discussion.

    I believe that Finance is everything in the court system today. The flow was well documented by you in your original post.
    Did you follow any of the proceedings of the Dobbins Island fiasco?
    The man that BOUGHT the Island has been in court for years, can you imagine the cost? Just as your op shows, the legal system can and does drag on for years, and then it goes to another court. The Lawyer you hire has more to do with the outcome of the case than the law.

    Having said that, it is YOUR post and I will refrain from commenting further.

    Sorry, and Thank you.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Let me give you my thoughts on our legal system
    Whoever has the most money hires the best lawyer and wins.

    Sorry, I can't leave this one alone (and I'm not going to bash anyone). No one will argue that money doesn't make a difference, as lawyers need to eat too. But the law does seek to even the scales, at least in some types of cases. For example, Woollard and Heller and McDonald were represented by Alan Gura. I have listened to Alan's oral arguments now and read lots of his briefs. He is an *excellent* lawyer. His argument recently in the 2d Circuit in Kachalsky was a work of art. Alan got paid in McDonald and Heller by the *defendants* under a federal fee shifting statute, 42 U.S.C. 1988, which entitles the prevailing party in civil rights cases to be paid by the other side. The checks that Alan got were quite large. If he prevails in Woollard, he'll get a big check from the State of Maryland too. Civil Rights plaintiffs are often represented by excellent counsel. The federal code is filled with similar fee shifting statutes, all of which are designed to help the plaintiff bring meritorious claims. See, e.g., 15 U.S.C. § 1692k(a)(3) (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act); 29 U.S.C. § 2617(a)(3) (Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993); 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-5(k) (Title VII). That is just a small sample.

    The point here is that it is easy to be cynical about our legal system and it certainly has its flaws. But, the guy with the most money does NOT always win. And I would have to say (and I know something about this), I would *much* rather live under our legal system than under any other legal system in any other country in the world.
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,948
    Marylandstan
    Sorry, I can't leave this one alone (and I'm not going to bash anyone). No one will argue that money doesn't make a difference, as lawyers need to eat too. But the law does seek to even the scales, at least in some types of cases. For example, Woollard and Heller and McDonald were represented by Alan Gura. I have listened to Alan's oral arguments now and read lots of his briefs. He is an *excellent* lawyer. His argument recently in the 2d Circuit in Kachalsky was a work of art. Alan got paid in McDonald and Heller by the *defendants* under a federal fee shifting statute, 42 U.S.C. 1988, which entitles the prevailing party in civil rights cases to be paid by the other side. The checks that Alan got were quite large. If he prevails in Woollard, he'll get a big check from the State of Maryland too. Civil Rights plaintiffs are often represented by excellent counsel. The federal code is filled with similar fee shifting statutes, all of which are designed to help the plaintiff bring meritorious claims. See, e.g., 15 U.S.C. § 1692k(a)(3) (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act); 29 U.S.C. § 2617(a)(3) (Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993); 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-5(k) (Title VII). That is just a small sample.

    The point here is that it is easy to be cynical about our legal system and it certainly has its flaws. But, the guy with the most money does NOT always win. And I would have to say (and I know something about this), I would *much* rather live under our legal system than under any other legal system in any other country in the world.

    Sir; And I would say a big AMEN to this. :thumbsup:
     

    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    Sorry, I can't leave this one alone (and I'm not going to bash anyone). No one will argue that money doesn't make a difference, as lawyers need to eat too. But the law does seek to even the scales, at least in some types of cases. For example, Woollard and Heller and McDonald were represented by Alan Gura. I have listened to Alan's oral arguments now and read lots of his briefs. He is an *excellent* lawyer. His argument recently in the 2d Circuit in Kachalsky was a work of art. Alan got paid in McDonald and Heller by the *defendants* under a federal fee shifting statute, 42 U.S.C. 1988, which entitles the prevailing party in civil rights cases to be paid by the other side. The checks that Alan got were quite large. If he prevails in Woollard, he'll get a big check from the State of Maryland too. Civil Rights plaintiffs are often represented by excellent counsel. The federal code is filled with similar fee shifting statutes, all of which are designed to help the plaintiff bring meritorious claims. See, e.g., 15 U.S.C. § 1692k(a)(3) (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act); 29 U.S.C. § 2617(a)(3) (Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993); 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-5(k) (Title VII). That is just a small sample.

    The point here is that it is easy to be cynical about our legal system and it certainly has its flaws. But, the guy with the most money does NOT always win. And I would have to say (and I know something about this), I would *much* rather live under our legal system than under any other legal system in any other country in the world.

    I will not question your judgement in the CourtRoom.

    One question: Is this the case in MOST Court Proceedings, that the loser pays the bill?
     
    Last edited:

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    I will not question your judgement in the CourtRoom.

    One question: Is this the case in MOST Court Proceedings, that the loser pays the bill?

    Nope. "Under the American rule" everyone pays their own fees and costs. That's the default. The fee-shifting statutes change that default in the particular types of cases covered by the statute, precisely in order to encourage plaintiffs to bring suit. In those kinds of cases, the plaintiff typically pays little or nothing out of pocket and the lawyer then files a fee petition with the court after he wins. The other side pays his "reasonable" fees and costs.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    I believe the Curcuit can send the case back to the District, with instructions (Remand?).

    It depends on the case and the issues presented. A remand may be ordered for further fact finding under the legal test articulated by the court of appeals. The court of appeals decides legal issues -- the district court (the court or the jury) finds the facts. In Woollard, the facts are undisputed -- the only questions presented are legal. So the court of appeals will issue a ruling. If it affirms, that's the end of the case. If it reverses, it depends. If the reversal is definitive, the remand would be with instructions to dismiss. If further facts might make a difference, then there is a remand for further fact finding. This graphic is not intended to have all the permutations of remands or ultimate disposition included -- just what might happen on the first trip up through the appellate process. For example, the SCT could issue a decision and remand it to the court of appeals. The court of appeals may then issue its own ruling on remand from the SCT, or, alternatively, remand it to the district court. It just depends on the issues.
     

    paulstitz

    Active Member
    Jun 19, 2010
    637
    Cockeysville
    It depends on the case and the issues presented. A remand may be ordered for further fact finding under the legal test articulated by the court of appeals. The court of appeals decides legal issues -- the district court (the court of the jury) finds the facts. In Woollard, the facts are undisputed -- the only questions presented are legal. So the court of appeals will issue a ruling. If it affirms, that's the end of the case. If it reverses, it depends. If the reversal is definitive, the remand would be with instructions to dismiss. If further facts might make a difference, then there is a remand for further fact finding. This graphic is not intended to have all the permutations of remands or ultimate disposition included -- just what might happen on the first trip up through the appellate process. For example, the SCT could issue a decision and remand it to the court of appeals. The court of appeals may then issue its own ruling on remand from the SCT, or, alternatively, remand it to the district court. It just depends on the issues.

    Thanks ESQ.

    I was commenting more generally not specific to Woollard.

    I thought it happened in one of the Chicago or IL cases fairly recently.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Thanks ESQ.

    I was commenting more generally not specific to Woollard.

    I thought it happened in one of the Chicago or IL cases fairly recently.


    It did indeed. And that is because the first trip to the court of appeals was an appeal of a denial of a preliminary injunction, which is an interlocutory appeal taken before there is a final judgment in district court. In those kinds of situations, the case continues in district court and the court of appeals resolution of the appeal simply provides direction for those proceedings. It gets complicated.
     

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