The M14. Not so great.

I have a Super Match M1A with 3.5-10 power scope. For the most part if I can see it I can hit it. I like the .308 it works. After a couple of thousand rounds down range it just keeps working better and better. The 5.56 is a good round and you can carry more but its not a reach out and touch someone round like. 308. Different guns for different jobs just look at its military use now. Ive seen the end result of what a .308 does to a human at long range and it makes you understand why its still used.

I’ve always imagined the birth of the M14 going something like this:


Yeah, I know…

Being based on the M1 Garand is the problem. As much as I like shooting the M1, ehhhhh....no two are the same. AR10 for the win.

trickg said:

Doesn't Delta and the Navy SEALs still use the M14 (M21/M25) as a sniper platform, or are they moving away from it to a different, better and more modern rifle for their lightweight, semi-auto sniper system?

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The M21 was phased out back in 1988, IIRC. The M25 is still in service, as is the Mk14 EBR. I am unaware of any effort to replace the M25 at this time, albeit you've got to wonder if the upcoming compact version of the M110 (SR-25) couldn't do it.

The M110 is no magic pill and has had its own set of problems.

http://kitup.military.com/2011/08/special-forces-worry-about-m110-durability.html

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-137240.html

erwos said:

The M21 was phased out back in 1988, IIRC. The M25 is still in service, as is the Mk14 EBR. I am unaware of any effort to replace the M25 at this time, albeit you've got to wonder if the upcoming compact version of the M110 (SR-25) couldn't do it.

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Cool stuff.

I've always wondered why the M14 maintained such as status - it had a short term as the main US Service rifle, although it might have something to do with the issues experienced with the early M16s. Comparatively, the M14 was probably the better gun back then....or so I've read, and only casually at that.

I have no idea, either. The M1A was a huge pain in the ass to maintain, to the point where it had its own special multitool to deal with such delights as the gas plug.

erwos said:

Remember that the usage of M14s as DMRs was mostly driven by the fact that there were a zillion M14s in storage, not because someone ran a competition and decided that an M14 in a fancy dress was the bestest DMR ever.

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Uh-huh!!!
The M14 rifle IS the bestest, when it's in a fancy dress.

They're purdy!!!! Real purdy!!

600 rounds before failure and if it gets really jammed up you have to take the stock off. That pretty much says it all.

Id rather get an AK out of chads trashcan than use an M1A

Just in case anyone decides to put their M14/M1As in the trash my phone number is...

Jed195 said:

Just in case anyone decides to put their M14/M1As in the trash my phone number is...

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+1!

This has been a great discussion for someone like me, who wants a SA .308 platform of some kind but has been put off by the cost. I've always liked the looks of the M1A and have thought about an AR10 type rifle too, but after reading this thread, am leaning more to the latter if my finances ever permit.

You can build a stupid accurate AR-308 for a lot cheaper than a comparable M1A, and it's a lot more likely to STAY accurate.

great guns, I love them, but I learned after my first attempt to scope one that after you have eveyrthing dialed in, no matter WHAT, the next time you go the range you are going to have to re-zero the rifle.

To this day I can not figure out why, butI have never had an M1a with optics shoot to the same point of aim after spending even just a few days in the safe.

Anyone can shed light on why this is the case? Chad?

But yeah, I love them for the history, but the garand is a little cooler in that regard. Very fun to shoot as long as you don't have to lug it around. I love em, but I don't think I would trust my life to one.

lsw said:

This has been a great discussion for someone like me, who wants a SA .308 platform of some kind but has been put off by the cost. I've always liked the looks of the M1A and have thought about an AR10 type rifle too, but after reading this thread, am leaning more to the latter if my finances ever permit.

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there are some great AR-10 deals out there right now.

Also, have you considered a FAL pattern or G3 pattern rifle?

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if they're banned or not.

DSA has some great nitrided barrel FALs out right now that shoot great- but for accuracy the AR-10 is hard to beat.

Chad has AK's in his trashcan?!?

M-14 style rifles are great at what they were designed for, which is infantry fighting in Europe against the Soviets. They're not CQB rifles, not sniper rifles, not anything else, they are main battle rifles and they do the job. They were not designed for use in jungles or tropical areas. They were not designed for use with scopes or any other optics. Full auto was added in because someone thought it was a good idea, on paper. Like all of the MBRs designed in that time period, semi-auto fire by infantry troops over fairly long distances with open sights is what it does best.

amoebicmagician said:

there are some great AR-10 deals out there right now.

Also, have you considered a FAL pattern or G3 pattern rifle?

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if they're banned or not.

DSA has some great nitrided barrel FALs out right now that shoot great- but for accuracy the AR-10 is hard to beat.

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Those C308 CETME's that Century is producing right now caught my eye because of the price, but I'm thinking when the time comes, I will go with an AR type rifle. As others have pointed out, ARs are hard to beat for ease of mods and upgrades and they're easier to fit an optic to than anything else comparable.

lsw said:

This has been a great discussion for someone like me, who wants a SA .308 platform of some kind but has been put off by the cost. I've always liked the looks of the M1A and have thought about an AR10 type rifle too, but after reading this thread, am leaning more to the latter if my finances ever permit.

Click to expand...

Because of the 'ban' here in Maryland, the AR-308 platform (for the lack of a better term) is the way to go.
I bought my beloved M1A before the AR-308 really became mainstream.

erwos said:

You can build a stupid accurate AR-308 for a lot cheaper than a comparable M1A, and it's a lot more likely to STAY accurate.

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I agree with this, 100%.
When my good friend had this particular M1A accurized (I bought it 2nd hand from him), he paid a CHUNK of $$$ to get it to the point where it is, today.
All bovine scatology aside......... he spent over $5,000.00 on this rifle!!!!
That is a LOT of $$$ in anybody's book.
(I paid nowhere near that kind of $$$ for this rifle.)

amoebicmagician said:

great guns, I love them, but I learned after my first attempt to scope one that after you have eveyrthing dialed in, no matter WHAT, the next time you go the range you are going to have to re-zero the rifle.

To this day I can not figure out why, but I have never had an M1a with optics shoot to the same point of aim after spending even just a few days in the safe.

Anyone can shed light on why this is the case? Chad?

But yeah, I love them for the history, but the garand is a little cooler in that regard. Very fun to shoot as long as you don't have to lug it around. I love em, but I don't think I would trust my life to one.

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I'll start by saying that I am NOT an expert on the workings of the M14/M1A platform.
I just like 'em, and I've read a lot of stuff about 'em.

In my experience, the 'key' to getting an M1A (with glass on it) to stay zero'd, is the mount, rings, and good glass.
There are some receivers that are NOT in spec, and some/most mounts CAN work loose, or never get 'tight' to begin with.

When I first got my M1A, it had a Springfield Armory 3rd generation scope mount on it.
After doing a LOT of reading online and talking to riflesmiths that have worked on/shot the M14/M1A platform, this mount was dropped into the bottom of a drawer and left there.
(When that mount came off, there was a LOT of 'battering' (of the mount) noticed. I'll never use that mount for anything now, except maybe a tire 'chock' for the riding mower.)

Sadlak Industries scope mount WORK as advertised.
I put a steel mount on my beloved M1A, along with Leupold MKIV rings.
Sadlak is the only mount manufacturer (that I know of) that sends/sells a set of gauges, so that you can see IF your receiver is in spec.
They are also the only manufacturer (again, that I know of) that will machine/alter the mount, to fit YOUR receiver.
Sidenote: My Springfield M1A is an EARLY production rifle. Serial #: 05xxx.
This receiver IS in spec.

This rifle stays zero'd. Once sighted in, I've never had to adjust the scope, at all.

The scope on this rifle was a Leupold VX-II. It now wears a Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-18x (if memory serves me). It might be 4.5-14x.
I'll have to look, to be certain.

Now, another note on keeping the rifle zero'd. I do NOT take the rifle out of the stock, if I can help it. Cleaning is a chore, but, the rifle doesn't move up/down/in/out of the stock unless I have to.
This rifle is TIGHT in the bedding. I do loosen (unlock) the trigger group, before storing in the safe.

amoebicmagician said:

Also, have you considered a FAL pattern or G3 pattern rifle?

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if they're banned or not.

DSA has some great nitrided barrel FALs out right now that shoot great- but for accuracy the AR-10 is hard to beat.

Click to expand...

Banned and banned.

FAL is a wonderful battle rifle, but trying to tune one to be a serious match rifle is problematic due to the way the trigger works. Hard to get a light crisp trigger. That is reliable.