Can I mail myself a 30 round mag?

ericoak · Apr 23, 2014

swinokur said:
I don't know, but as I said, I'd prefer to receive an item, I had in my possession prior to the flight, not received from a separate Govt. entity.

As I said IANAL. This all hinges on the interpretation of receive. I'll do it the way I outlined. YMMV.

They are basically the same thing in both cases.

1. You legally owned a magazine in the state of GA.
2. While still in GA you give the magazine to a third party to transport for you to your final destination.
3. When back in MD, the third party hands you the magazine you bought in GA. If you want to count that as receiving a magazine you have to call both scenarios receiving a magazine.

Nothing in the law mentions receiving from a private party as opposed to a government entity. Furthermore, you could have it delivered using another private company like UPS or Fed Ex, making the examples even closer since they would both be private parties. Not to mention TSA involvement. In fact, at the ATL airport, the last person you drop your guns off with is the TSA, a government agency.

jonnyl · Apr 23, 2014

ShallNotInfringe said:
Sure would be nice to have that definition, wouldn't it? A few of us have been asking for a while.... As a matter of fact, I wrote to the entire GA last summer to inquire and got absolutely 0 responses.

Can you read the letter I posted above and provide your thoughts? I'd be interested to hear.

My layman's reading is that receive is a transfer of ownership. In which case mailing from yourself to yourself should be fine. Academically of course, I'm not actually going to do it myself

swinokur · Apr 23, 2014

I'd agree with you and I also pointed out if a court were to examine the facts, the word receive would be the issue.

If it makes you feel better, I'll concede the point.

ericoak · Apr 23, 2014

swinokur said:
I'd agree with you and I also pointed out if a court were to examine the facts, the word receive would be the issue.

If it makes you feel better, I'll concede the point.

Haha for some reason it does.

And I completely agree it comes down to what the term receive means.

Right now I bring my magazines and guns on the plane because it is cheaper than shipping. A lot cheaper if you want to ship them the legal way.

swinokur · Apr 23, 2014

However there is no ambiguity of the legality of the receipt of a LG you owned before Oct. 1.

Now I feel better.

ShallNotInfringe · Apr 23, 2014

swinokur said:
A member of the GA must request the AG for an opinion. Maybe that would work. They don't respond to citizens.

Figured with a distribution list of > 150 legislators, one of them might ask and reply.

Forgot I live in MD and silly to imagine they might feel some level of accountability....

ShallNotInfringe · Apr 23, 2014

jonnyl said:
Can you read the letter I posted above and provide your thoughts? I'd be interested to hear.

My layman's reading is that receive is a transfer of ownership. In which case mailing from yourself to yourself should be fine. Academically of course, I'm not actually going to do it myself

The footnote on page 2 is the key in the context of the memo.

Like the word transfer, the word "receive" is used elsewhere in the law in ways that more than a temporary exchange is meant.

How did I miss this memo before today? ForumRunner doesn't show attachments, I have to use the web browser to see them. Thank you for posting this.

Threeband · Apr 23, 2014

Receive definitely involves transfer of ownership.

Suppose we're at the range, and you ask to try my AR with a 30 round mag. I hand it to you, you fire a few shots, and hand it back. I don't think there's any doubt that that's legal. It's not even gray.

Engine4 · Apr 23, 2014

Next time, don't ask questions. Just mail it to yourself with no return address.

Alan3413 · Apr 23, 2014

There's been a lot of concern about semantics.

If we're getting into that, I technically did not "receive" my luggage from the baggage handler. I retrieved it from a machine in baggage claim. For all I know, it may have teleported itself there.

Likewise, I did not "receive" a package from the mailman unless I signed for the package. I merely retrieved it from the mailbox, or front porch as the case may be. How it got there is anybody's guess. Maybe carrier pigeons dropped it there?

ericoak · Apr 23, 2014

Threeband said:
Receive definitely involves transfer of ownership.

Suppose we're at the range, and you ask to try my AR with a 30 round mag. I hand it to you, you fire a few shots, and hand it back. I don't think there's any doubt that that's legal. It's not even gray.

I agree for the most part, although I think receive also includes temporary ownership like borrowing one for personal use.

ShallNotInfringe · Apr 23, 2014

ericoak said:
I agree for the most part, although I think receive also includes temporary ownership like borrowing one for personal use.

Not according to the AG memo, which cites the Chow v MD ruling.

swinokur · Apr 23, 2014

Yep, It stated just the opposite.

With that in mind, it would at least at first blush, be legal to do either.

IANAL.

ShallNotInfringe · Apr 23, 2014

swinokur said:
Yep, It stated just the opposite.

With that in mind, it would at least at first blush, be legal to do either.

IANAL.

IANAL either.

. But one day I aspire to be one.

Minuteman · Apr 23, 2014

Interesting discussion.

What did the AG letter say?

j8064 · Apr 23, 2014

Just the fact that current MD laws create this much discussion and leave so much for "logical" interpretation (as if "logic" was ever applied in the law's making in the first place) demonstrates two points:

Those who drafted, passed and signed the current MD law either purposefully left them vague (so as to create confusion and uncertainty) thereby achieving a goal of limiting 2A freedom, or simply took "only one more bite" of the 2A "elephant" they obviously detest with the intention of continuing to eat that "elephant" one bite at a time. Methinks both.
Clearly, it defines an obtrusive state whose borders I am anxious to permanently exit as soon as I possibly can!

In English language the definition, meaning and concept of the word "receive" is NOT hard to understand. But keep in mind, we all were once informed the definition of the word "IS", was not as we thought it was.

:sad20:

re·ceive
verb \ri-ˈsēv\

: to get or be given (something)

: to react to (something) in a specified way

: to welcome (someone) in usually a formal way
re·ceivedre·ceiv·ing
Full Definition of RECEIVE
transitive verb
1
: to come into possession of : acquire <receive a gift>
2
a : to act as a receptacle or container for <the cistern receives water from the roof>
b : to assimilate through the mind or senses <receive new ideas>
3
a : to permit to enter : admit
b : welcome, greet
c : to react to in a specified manner
4
: to accept as authoritative, true, or accurate : believe
5
a : to support the weight or pressure of : bear
b : to take (a mark or impression) from the weight of something <some clay receives clear impressions>
c : acquire, experience <received his early schooling at home>
d : to suffer the hurt or injury of <received a broken nose>
intransitive verb
1
: to be a recipient
2
: to be at home to visitors <receives on Tuesdays>
3
: to convert incoming radio waves into perceptible signals
4
: to prepare to take possession of the ball from a kick in football

Rebelwon · Apr 23, 2014

I jut brought two 30-red PMAGs home from Florida in checked luggage a couple of weeks ago, in the original packaging. No TSA card saying it was inspected.

Threeband · Apr 23, 2014

ericoak said:
I agree for the most part, although I think receive also includes temporary ownership like borrowing one for personal use.

Like this?

Threeband said:
Suppose we're at the range, and you ask to try my AR with a 30 round mag. I hand it to you, you fire a few shots, and ~~hand it back. I don't think there's any doubt that that's legal. It's not even gray.~~ put it in your rifle case, toss it in the trunk of your car, saying, "I'll give it back tomorrow or next week maybe" as you drive away, then we may be in a gray area.

Yes, that might be "receiving" the magazine, and thus beyond the pale, although loaning guns, even handguns is legal as I understand it.

ShallNotInfringe · Apr 23, 2014

ericoak said:
I agree for the most part, although I think receive also includes temporary ownership like borrowing one for personal use.

Threeband said:
Like this?

Read this:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-appeals/1123356.html

bkuether · Apr 23, 2014

Mail.

So what is going to happen?

Understand transfer made in a purchase. That is the "commerce" part our lovely lawmakers love to latch on to..... Change of ownership.

If I buy some magazines out of state and put them in a box, and ship them to myself, what is going to happen?

UPS or Fedex or even US Mail aren't the authorities for the state of MD. They are not screening the contents of your packages to determine if there is an illegal piece of plastic in there? Explosives? Yes possibly. White powder? Maybe. Plastic? No.

They will get delivered. And then what? You go to the range and use them.

Are the magazine police going to show up at the range?

Where did you get that 30 round magazine? Out of state, I drove to PA and picked it up, and brought it back.... Can you prove that? No sorry I paid cash. Well we don't believe you, you are under arrest!

If that is happening, we are already under marshal law.

Can I mail myself a 30 round mag?

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