MSP Hi-Cap Mag Sting Question

protegeV said:

So what if someone calls asking for something, would that hinge on whether they announce themselves as a MD resident:

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Just make sure you are physically outside of Maryland when you "order" and "receive" the aforementioned standard capacity magazines.

My mother lives in Virginia and I visit her on occasion. I will now have to allot some more time to visit her in order to do some shopping.

TheBert said:

Just make sure you are physically outside of Maryland when you "order" and "receive" the aforementioned standard capacity magazines.

My mother lives in Virginia and I visit her on occasion. I will now have to allot some more time to visit her in order to do some shopping.

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oh yeah, I always drive to PA to make a call on my cell phone to order standard capacity mags

First of all, I am not sure why someone would want to enter into this conundrum of ordering illegal magazines from a shop in Md, have them shipped out of state just to bring them back in. And not sure why a Maryland FLL would do this as well. Did this actually happen or is this a hypothetical??
My opinion, is if any part of the transaction, i.e... the purchaser's address on his DL or credit card used has a MD billing address or both were involved, the state could say it was in fact a MD sale and transfer to a MD resident of an illegal magazine. I think both the seller and buyer would be on the hook.
I say any financial transaction (credit card processing) for the sale originates in Md, it's a MD sale. I don't think the shipping address has any say in the part of the sale.

Just my morning .02

Good thing they still make cash

Blaster, I assume you are kidding, but if not (and for others), and hypothetically of course . . .

The issue primarily comes from accepting an offer to sell a firearm with a 10+ standard capacity magazine from an out of state FFL, and that FFL shipping the complete package to a Maryland FFL for eventual transfer of the firearm to the end user. What happens to the mags because it would be illegal for the Maryland FFL to transfer them to the customer in Maryland? Especially if the seller will not remove the 10+ round mags prior to shipping because he is not obligated to do so (e.g. just like he isn't obligated to charge Maryland sales tax because MD has no jurisdiction to impose the tax collection requirement outside of MD), and even more so if the manufacturer doesn't produce 10 round magazines that can be swapped. Keep in mind this is entirely different from an end user in Maryland buying 10+ mags direct from a seller outside of Maryland for direct shipment to the buyer. In that case the sale still occurred outside of Maryland, but the transfer would be inside of Maryland, and would be illegal. It gets complicated in that situation whether MD could enforce the law against the out of state FFL, but the buyer in state would be easy prey. So FFL's both inside and outside of MD make their own rules for dealing with this. Some won't ship 10+ to MD period. Some will ship the firearm but remove the 10+ mag. Some swap the mag and sell the standard mag to someone in America.

So if you are outside of Maryland, or for that matter even inside of Maryland, and accept a sale offer being made outside of Maryland, then Maryland has no jurisdiction. Especially when your local FFL has no intention of transferring the mag to you, and you have no intention of taking possession of it while in Maryland. The sale/purchase was made or consummated outside of Maryland. Its not illegal for an out of state FFL to transfer the gun with mags to a Maryland FFL. But it would be illegal under Maryland law for the Maryland FFL to transfer the mags to his customer while in Maryland.

BUT there is nothing illegal about a Maryland FFL sending a 10+ round mag out of state, and there is nothing illegal about your Grandmother giving you a couple of standard mags for Easter while visiting her in America, and there is nothing illegal about the mere possession and use of 10+ mags in Maryland. Thank the GA for making your next purchase so complicated for all involved, and most of all thank your Grandmother.

Thanks for the offer, but live in Maryland and no friends close out of state. I may at some point get a PO box in PA but not yet.

I had posted this on Duffy's a while little while ago. I had read that it maybe legal to by Hi cap magazines and have them delivered out of state to pick them up.

I honestly had no intension of breaking any laws or doing anything wrong. But now thanks to all of your insight to how this could be viewed. It is not a good way to go about buying these in Maryland.

I want to thank all of you for the information and read how all of the New Laws may affect us in ways most honest people would not think of.

Michael S said:

Thanks for the offer, but live in Maryland and no friends close out of state. I may at some point get a PO box in PA but not yet.

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It's good to make friends with people who have relatives that live just over the line

I hope that happens over time. I just got into shooting a few years ago thanks to my wife making me take my first coarse. As I have time to get out more I am looking forward to meeting more people that have the same interest. I am thinks about joining one of the local clubs.

I have lived in Maryland all my life and like the state. But I really don't like were it is going.

I am about 1.5 miles from the circle on 74 in Pa. and will sell anything in stock to whom ever walks thru the door. I was just saying that I have to be careful with any ad I may run that happens to be in any Md. area. So I don't say what size they are just what type or what they fit.

Blaster229 said:

First of all, I am not sure why someone would want to enter into this conundrum of ordering illegal magazines from a shop in Md, have them shipped out of state just to bring them back in. And not sure why a Maryland FLL would do this as well. Did this actually happen or is this a hypothetical??
My opinion, is if any part of the transaction, i.e... the purchaser's address on his DL or credit card used has a MD billing address or both were involved, the state could say it was in fact a MD sale and transfer to a MD resident of an illegal magazine. I think both the seller and buyer would be on the hook.
I say any financial transaction (credit card processing) for the sale originates in Md, it's a MD sale. I don't think the shipping address has any say in the part of the sale.

Just my morning .02

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Then all of my car rentals are actually made in Maryland because that is the billing address of my corporate AX card? I am sure Maryland would like to get a piece of all if those transactions.

When I buy gas on my credit card while in Virginia i should notify Maryland so that they can ask me for the gasoline tax money because my credit cards billing address is in Maryland.

the didn't buy the mags from them, they bought the gun. The mags just came with the gun for free. Some manufacturers give out more free mags than others. Therefor, the transferee didn't buy the magazines from the in-state ffl, and they were just picking up free items out of state. Look right there on the bill of sale...the gun is listed, but there's no magazines listen anywhere. It's like how at a fuddruckers in PA without a liquor license, you don't buy beer....but you do get a free beer when you buy a burger(true story).

Between gryphon and Smokey , the question is framed :

FFL orders gun for a customer. Said gun comes with various paraphaniala , including three standard magazines. What is status and options about the magazines ? Are the magazines theoretically sold in te underlying gun purchase, and for the FFL to ship them out of state on behalf of customer would be completing an illegal sale ? Or was only the gun purachased , the accesories free gifts from the mfg , and can be shipped out of state on behalf of the customer ? Or does the FFL just keep the mags , and tell the buyer " Hey you didn't buy them, just the gun, we're keeping them too bad" ?

No I'm not making this up, I am aware of a similar situation playing out at present with no resolution at this time.

TheBert said:

Then all of my car rentals are actually made in Maryland because that is the billing address of my corporate AX card? I am sure Maryland would like to get a piece of all if those transactions.

When I buy gas on my credit card while in Virginia i should notify Maryland so that they can ask me for the gasoline tax money because my credit cards billing address is in Maryland.

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I am not sure of the current state of the law, but when I looked at the online commerce issue a while ago (for some other project not gun related) the cases were trending along the "location of the business" and "location of the business' web server" standards.

That was how online commerce was avoiding dealing with 50-state sales taxes hassles at the time.




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FWIW, my understanding is that the MSP were not the ones who did the arrest here, it was a local cop.

erwos said:

FWIW, my understanding is that the MSP were not the ones who did the arrest here, it was a local cop.

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Somebody got to bragging and somebody got everybody in trouble.

Don't be that guy.

Who in their right mind actually believes that the MSP is going to devote the time, manpower, and funding to investigate and gather intel on someone traveling to Pa to take possession of magazines? To then follow them and sit and wait on the Maryland side of the border, all hoping that they chose the same identical route back into Maryland from Pa, just to hassle them about legal activities? I mean really. I know some people on this board like to argue and discuss every possible outcome to the most inconceivable smallest detail but come on.

USAFRavenR6 said:

Who in their right mind actually believes that the MSP is going to devote the time, manpower, and funding to investigate and gather intel on someone traveling to Pa to take possession of magazines? To then follow them and sit and wait on the Maryland side of the border, all hoping that they chose the same identical route back into Maryland from Pa, just to hassle them about legal activities? I mean really. I know some people on this board like to argue and discuss every possible outcome to the most inconceivable smallest detail but come on.

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I agree with you some people take it too seriously but they don't need to wait inside MD. I've seen MD cops stake out fireworks places in PA and then bust MDers as soon as the cross the line

USAFRavenR6 said:

Who in their right mind actually believes that the MSP is going to devote the time, manpower, and funding to investigate and gather intel on someone traveling to Pa to take possession of magazines? To then follow them and sit and wait on the Maryland side of the border, all hoping that they chose the same identical route back into Maryland from Pa, just to hassle them about legal activities? I mean really. I know some people on this board like to argue and discuss every possible outcome to the most inconceivable smallest detail but come on.

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The MSP won't do it because it would be a complete waste of time, because it is not illegal to purchase or pickup (or whatever) 10+ mags in another state and bring them to Maryland on your person. ProtegeV's point is well taken, but this isn't like fireworks that you cannot possess in Maryland, or cigarettes that you can't bring across state lines without the proper state tax stamps. Now, that said, no one should become complacent and/or sloppy and start taking short cuts, because if you sell, offer to sell, transfer or receive 10+ mags while in Maryland - even those owned prior to Oct. 1 - you are subject to a conviction of the FSA, and could really be screwed. Moral of the story? Take your mag business to States that appreciate and respect the 2A.

K-Romulus said:

I am not sure of the current state of the law, but when I looked at the online commerce issue a while ago (for some other project not gun related) the cases were trending along the "location of the business" and "location of the business' web server" standards.

That was how online commerce was avoiding dealing with 50-state sales taxes hassles at the time.


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online places go away with it because they don't have a brick n mortar point of sale. That's going away more and more by linking sales tax to the point of delivery where a physical store doesn't exist.

The only time you encounter the possibility of double taxation on something you purchased out of state is a vehicle in the worse case scenario you don't have any documentation that you paid sales tax else where. usually your previous registration covers that.

In any event, we have commerce clause going for us. just think of it this way, you're giving another state your money for a service you have a right to. 20 bucks and some tax to PA, VA,WV is a finger towards the GA.

Buying high capacity magazines online

If I order high capacity magazines online (Maryland resident) and have it shipped to myself addressed to a relative's house out of state, is it legal since I was physically in Maryland when buying online? or

1 Should I buy it online then have it shipped to my friend (his name) and his address? or
2. Should the buyer be the out of state relative/friend then I just pay them when I go pick it up?

First post in the forum. Thank you for replies.