Shall Issue referendum

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  • NavyATFP

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 3, 2013
    158
    Hyattsville
    The Pro-2A delegates do make noise, they do tackle the issues, but the votes just aren't there. Mike Smiegel can introduce bill after bill, tear apart anti after anti, but when there aren't enough votes on the HJC to pass it, nothings going to happen. As long as Frosh is on the SJC, he's going to pocket veto the bills. Until we can get them some help, expecting them to change the state is asking the impossible.

    [/B]

    The problem is when you only hear a few names getting repeated over and over on this board it makes me think many of the folks here only talk to those people. Ive seen something that amazed me recently at a PGYD get together that I plan to address in the same way of fighting fire with fire.

    One member of the group brought a tablet loaded with videos from homeless folks around the county being assaulted near METRO stops. The concern was how to get more METRO police :lol2: so I mentioned why not arm the homeless? Now of course after the shocked looks I got I explained that in actuality it isn't possible in the conventional sense with a firearm as many are court recognized as mental deficient and many are felons so I suggested we raise money to buy them all Cold Steel Walking Shillelaghs, one to help them get around and two for a bit of protection. The argument yet again swung back to more police and that's when I explained to them that the police are not even required to respond to each call and many times don't until the attackers are long gone. That actually shocked many of them and I was asked to put together a presentation.

    Many are being kept in the dark about self defense measures for themselves an those around them(to include the right of firearm ownership not being an evil thing).

    Instead of making a visit to Del. Smeigal why not make a copy of the Firearm Related Violence report ( http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page= ) and go pay a visit to some of the Democrats that will take an appointment with you in Annapolis or your home district. Show them the facts and explain to them this is the report that the current President mandated and leave a copy with them. Not all of the facts are perfect but nothing is.

    Before someone goes on a rant about the democrats not wanting to see facts I will bet most expect that your examples are the open sessions where a lot of passionate people got up and spoke while many Delegates tuned you out. Its much harder to tune you out when your in their offices. Meet your neighbors that are Democrats and find the ones that are Pro 2nd and ask them to join you in a visit to your delegate.

    Once this election is over I plan to make time to do just this with all new and old representation in my district for PG County and the part i have as the director of a veterans non profit and a card carrying democrat is it would be a shame for one of them not to take a sit down. Find a reason for them to want that sit down with you and then take just a few minutes to get this report in their hands. I promise you most of them don't even know it exists.
     

    INMY01TA

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 29, 2008
    5,829
    The problem is when you only hear a few names getting repeated over and over on this board it makes me think many of the folks here only talk to those people. Ive seen something that amazed me recently at a PGYD get together that I plan to address in the same way of fighting fire with fire.

    One member of the group brought a tablet loaded with videos from homeless folks around the county being assaulted near METRO stops. The concern was how to get more METRO police :lol2: so I mentioned why not arm the homeless? Now of course after the shocked looks I got I explained that in actuality it isn't possible in the conventional sense with a firearm as many are court recognized as mental deficient and many are felons so I suggested we raise money to buy them all Cold Steel Walking Shillelaghs, one to help them get around and two for a bit of protection. The argument yet again swung back to more police and that's when I explained to them that the police are not even required to respond to each call and many times don't until the attackers are long gone. That actually shocked many of them and I was asked to put together a presentation.

    Many are being kept in the dark about self defense measures for themselves an those around them(to include the right of firearm ownership not being an evil thing).

    Instead of making a visit to Del. Smeigal why not make a copy of the Firearm Related Violence report ( http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page= ) and go pay a visit to some of the Democrats that will take an appointment with you in Annapolis or your home district. Show them the facts and explain to them this is the report that the current President mandated and leave a copy with them. Not all of the facts are perfect but nothing is.

    Before someone goes on a rant about the democrats not wanting to see facts I will bet most expect that your examples are the open sessions where a lot of passionate people got up and spoke while many Delegates tuned you out. Its much harder to tune you out when your in their offices. Meet your neighbors that are Democrats and find the ones that are Pro 2nd and ask them to join you in a visit to your delegate.

    Once this election is over I plan to make time to do just this with all new and old representation in my district for PG County and the part i have as the director of a veterans non profit and a card carrying democrat is it would be a shame for one of them not to take a sit down. Find a reason for them to want that sit down with you and then take just a few minutes to get this report in their hands. I promise you most of them don't even know it exists.
    We all met with the reps in their offices last year, made no difference. You're a Dem? (Not Dino?) You're antigun. Congrats.
     

    CrazySanMan

    2013'er
    Mar 4, 2013
    11,390
    Colorful Colorado
    He can not over rule the Legislature. Move to Virginia if you want a 38 in your pocket. Not Maryland , no way never, but keep up the fight I guess...:o

    He doesn't need to, he just needs to write a letter to the MSP.

    If the legislature changes the law again he can veto it, and they won't get enough votes to override it.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,762
    Maryland is unique in that the governor could create shall issue by executive order.

    The governor cannot; however, repeal SB281 without a major change in the legislature.
     

    NavyATFP

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 3, 2013
    158
    Hyattsville
    We all met with the reps in their offices last year, made no difference. You're a Dem? (Not Dino?) You're antigun. Congrats.

    Not sure if that was a comment directed at me but i'm far from anti gun. How many of the visits to the Democrats delegates did you take actual democrats with you(and no not DINO's). I hate to point this out but just like the finger pointing i get from many when i identify as a democrat and a liberal(of sorts) you will experience the same when meeting with a Democrat aligned representative. It isn't right but a lot of the time its all in how the presentation starts out.

    You should be able to go into your elected representatives office's and have them honestly hear you out but typically they only hear " Blah blah blah guns, blah blah blah vote you out and replace you with a republican".

    Why not find actual democrats in your district that are supporters of the second amendment and invite them along. You'd be surprised what the representation will listen to when faced with one of their actual voters.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,914
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    As I said in my post, there are many anti-gun republicans, and many pro-gun democrats. I have personally voted both Dem and Rep in the past. If there were enough people to support a pro-gun referendum in this state, we would have a pro-gun legislature. We would not need a referendum in the first place. And, the current anti-gun legislature gets to write the text of the ballot initiative.

    When I see pro-2A delegates being elected in Baltimore City or PG County, I will change my mind.

    No, your logic is faulty. First, you assume that everybody is voting for candidates solely on the 2nd Amendment issue. Voters vote on a large variety of issues. The entire state could be pro 2nd Amendment AND Pro Choice, but more Pro Choice than 2nd Amendment. So, they vote for every single Pro Choice democrat that runs. Rather simple example, but it shows that while a lot of people could be supportive of the 2nd Amendment, other issues trump the 2nd Amendment in importance when it comes time to vote for a candidate on ALL the issues, not just a single issue.

    Anyway, this horse has been beat to death. The referendum boat sailed almost a year ago. Now, we wait and see if those that were against it end up being right, or if we go down in flames with a bullet left in the chamber that we never fired. Personally, I hope I was wrong and that something gets in front of SCOTUS regarding the G&S issue, the "assault weapon" ban issue, and the licensing issue. We shall see what SCOTUS decides to hear, but it is going to take years. I'm wondering what the legal bills are going to be for the run to SCOTUS just on the SB281 litigation.
     

    reechee

    Tacticool
    Oct 4, 2010
    50
    HarCo
    too much risk, amiright? If it gets shot down (the more than likely outcome), that's a major blow dealt to the cause.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    No, your logic is faulty. First, you assume that everybody is voting for candidates solely on the 2nd Amendment issue. Voters vote on a large variety of issues. The entire state could be pro 2nd Amendment AND Pro Choice, but more Pro Choice than 2nd Amendment. So, they vote for every single Pro Choice democrat that runs. Rather simple example, but it shows that while a lot of people could be supportive of the 2nd Amendment, other issues trump the 2nd Amendment in importance when it comes time to vote for a candidate on ALL the issues, not just a single issue.

    Anyway, this horse has been beat to death. The referendum boat sailed almost a year ago. Now, we wait and see if those that were against it end up being right, or if we go down in flames with a bullet left in the chamber that we never fired. Personally, I hope I was wrong and that something gets in front of SCOTUS regarding the G&S issue, the "assault weapon" ban issue, and the licensing issue. We shall see what SCOTUS decides to hear, but it is going to take years. I'm wondering what the legal bills are going to be for the run to SCOTUS just on the SB281 litigation.

    I think we are saying the same thing. I am NOT assuming everybody is voting for candidates on 2a issues. Anyway, as you said, this has been beaten to death.
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    This topic reminds me of the old saying "democracy is like two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner". A referendum vote is pure democracy in its nature.

    Given the state administration would have the ability to word the question to skew the results and there just may not be the 2A support in this state to withstand that, it's for the best that the FSA2013 didn't get on the ballot. This is a cold, hard truth we must accept. :(. Sorry! We live in a liberal paradise. The constitution was written to recognize individual rights, not to give the majority the ability to take them away.

    Since there wasn't any legislation related to carry passed this year, there is no possibility of a referendum for that issue under election laws.

    We need to support candidates in the upcoming election that are Pro2A and, if possible, use other factors to get folks to vote them in. This requires homework and some hard work. I seriously doubt highlighting votes on FSA2013 is going to win the day.
     

    Lou45

    R.I.P.
    Jun 29, 2010
    12,048
    Carroll County
    Because it's for the chillens

    FIFY

    This topic reminds me of the old saying "democracy is like two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner". A referendum vote is pure democracy in its nature.

    Given the state administration would have the ability to word the question to skew the results and there just may not be the 2A support in this state to withstand that, it's for the best that the FSA2013 didn't get on the ballot. This is a cold, hard truth we must accept. :(. Sorry! We live in a liberal paradise. The constitution was written to recognize individual rights, not to give the majority the ability to take them away.

    Since there wasn't any legislation related to carry passed this year, there is no possibility of a referendum for that issue under election laws.

    We need to support candidates in the upcoming election that are Pro2A and, if possible, use other factors to get folks to vote them in. This requires homework and some hard work. I seriously doubt highlighting votes on FSA2013 is going to win the day.

    Now WTF do you mean by "paradise"??? I know, it's jus' hard to visualize libtards in paradise while I'm living and fighting the ******** we're going through here.

    We have to do it on the first three of the four boxes; soap, jury, ballot. I'll be workin' the polling places (I guess mine) for a hopefully new Sheriff elect (Fiora) and perhaps some of our Delegates (Krebs, Ready, Armageddon Amedori) and Senator Getty if they'll allow me to do that many. Not to mention our local people elect to office. I wanna' be a BIG PART in the BIG PUSH to take back our state. I don't expect miracles with election '14, but throw in '16 and '18, there COULD be a good shift in the tide so long as WE, YES WE, WE maintain our diligence and keep up the good fight.

    BTW, I don't think referendum is the way to go.
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    Now WTF do you mean by "paradise"??? I know, it's jus' hard to visualize libtards in paradise while I'm living and fighting the ******** we're going through here.

    We have to do it on the first three of the four boxes; soap, jury, ballot. I'll be workin' the polling places (I guess mine) for a hopefully new Sheriff elect (Fiora) and perhaps some of our Delegates (Krebs, Ready, Armageddon Amedori) and Senator Getty if they'll allow me to do that many. Not to mention our local people elect to office. I wanna' be a BIG PART in the BIG PUSH to take back our state. I don't expect miracles with election '14, but throw in '16 and '18, there COULD be a good shift in the tide so long as WE, YES WE, WE maintain our diligence and keep up the good fight.

    BTW, I don't think referendum is the way to go.

    I mean if you are a liberal, MD is a paradise for their causes. They win and like that. They vote for people that support liberal causes and don't have the insight to understand why this state is turning into a cesspool due to their voting patterns. If you can't fit it in a 5 second sound bite, they need to get back to their Facebook pages and such.

    Referendum is not an option for "shall issue" (no legislation this year passed on this) and referendum is not an option for fsa2013 (that died last year). So it's off the table and not even worth a conversation, much less debating the merits of one.
     

    PO2012

    Active Member
    Oct 24, 2013
    815
    I am not a lawyer nor am I an expert on the referendum process here in Maryland. What I do know is what happens when you put 2nd Amendment rights up for a vote in an area which is hostile to the private ownership of firearms.

    I grew up in New York City and I watched the People of the City of New York vote overwhelmingly by way of referendum to oppress their fellow citizens and make it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to own or possess a rifle or shotgun. When all the votes were counted more than 80% of those casting their vote (I believe the exact number was between 84 and 87 percent) voted to strip law abiding adults of their right to keep and bear arms.

    Keep in mind that the mere possession of any rifle or shotgun required (and still requires) that one be licensed, that the weapon be registered, that all ammunition sales be registered and that the law states that one cannot legally purchase ammunition in NYC if one doesn't own a registered firearm of the same caliber (i.e. if all you own is a .38 revolver you cannot purchase 9mm ammunition). Also keep in mind that it costs several hundred dollars to obtain said license, that it can take over a year to receive said license, that said license can be denied for any reason at all (to include having been ticketed for double parking, I kid you not) and that it is easier to navigate the process of purchasing a fully automatic weapon here in Maryland than it is to obtain a license to own a single shot .22 bolt action rifle in NYC. Keep in mind further that rifles and shotguns are not allowed to hold more than five rounds. This wasn't enough for the People of New York City. They voted to disenfranchise every 18, 19 and 20 year old in the City, to include those who already had licenses (which were then voided). When this vote was held this question wasn't heavily publicized. There was no major campaign for or against it, the matter simply had enough votes to go on the ballot and was put to the voters who chose, of their own free will, to further destroy the 2nd Amendment and to require the forfeiture of legally owned weapons held by adults with an impeccable personal history.

    New York is far further along the road to destruction than Maryland but I consider the above story instructive and I would urge others to do the same and to be cautious about suggesting that we use referendums to achieve our ends. The damage can be catastrophic.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,762
    Keep in mind one thing too.

    The NRA can fund the lawsuit easily because courts are less influenced by public opinion.

    Can you imagine how an NRA funded petition would go over in MD?
     

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