SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

Hawkeye · Apr 9, 2014

erwos said:
Yes. But if you're standing across the counter from the dealer in Maryland and he sells you a rifle and full-cap mag, and then sends the mag out of state, the dealer has still broken the law. Even by making the offer, they've technically broken the law.

Yes, that was my understanding as well.

Now, back to the SBRs....

ThisGuy918 · Apr 9, 2014

So let me get this straight. A VA resident can drive into Maryland, buy a AK or other banned weapon, but can't have the magazine shipped to them in VA because the offer for sale was done in MD? Nor could the dealer ship it to them after the fact because the magazine still has value and would constitute a sale? Am I interpreting this correctly?

NateIU10 · Apr 9, 2014

According to MSP Advisory LDS 13-005:

Can an FFL dispose of a magazine with a capacity of more than 20 rounds, or more than 10 rounds on and after October 1, 2013 to an out-of-state individual?

Yes, an FFL/MD Regulated Firearm’s Dealer may sell and/or offer for sale a magazine with a capacity of more than 20 rounds, or more than 10 rounds on and after October 1, 2013 to an out-of-state individual as long as the sale takes place outside of Maryland.

https://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=qpNilFPOYro=&tabid=961&mid=2922

Inigoes · Apr 9, 2014

NateIU10 said:
According to MSP Advisory LDS 13-005:

Can an FFL dispose of a magazine with a capacity of more than 20 rounds, or more than 10 rounds on and after October 1, 2013 to an out-of-state individual?

Yes, an FFL/MD Regulated Firearm’s Dealer may sell and/or offer for sale a magazine with a capacity of more than 20 rounds, or more than 10 rounds on and after October 1, 2013 to an out-of-state individual as long as the sale takes place outside of Maryland.

Click to expand...

https://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=qpNilFPOYro=&tabid=961&mid=2922

The key: as long as the sale takes place outside of Maryland.

ThisGuy918 · Apr 9, 2014

But a dealer can still sell an out of state resident a banned rifle?

teratos · Apr 9, 2014

ThisGuy918 said:
But a dealer can still sell an out of state resident a banned rifle?

Yes. They didn't want to interfere with a dealers income, because then they would be unable to collect the extra taxes from him/her...

SB281 Blaster · Apr 9, 2014

Thanks for all the input on this. I brought it up because I feel it is worthy of discussion. The rifle is offered for sale as labeled on the outside of the box. I have no clue what magazine came with it, been too long to remember. I am not offering a magazine for sale. The rifle is sold with the magazine in a sealed box from the factory and shipped to an FFL out of state. I offered to sell the rifle, what magazine comes with I do not care, even if it is illegal in the receiving state. The FFL in that state can remove it before transferring it to his customer. Additionally, the intent of the law is to get ALGs and magazines out of the State. I have done that.

Now if I had magazines in my display case offering them for sale to law enforcement active and retired only, and sold one to a customer heading home to Delaware agreeing to send it to his local FFL, I may have a problem. I don't like this because how is selling it on the internet, receiving payment here and shipping to his FFL any different. I don't think it is because it accomplishes the law's intent, get the guns and mags out of MD.

Per COMAR .02(2)D(3)(b) magazine sales fall under this exception. As I read it I am selling to an individual purchaser in another state through an FFL. The "in another state" applies to the purchaser, not where the sale takes place. If I were in the other state it is legal without an FFL in the mix.

SB281 Blaster · Apr 9, 2014

ThisGuy918 said:
But a dealer can still sell an out of state resident a banned rifle?

I met a man from WV at the Frederick gun show. I am selling him a banned rifle at my shop that is left over from October 1st with a 10 round magazine and shipping it to his FFL in WV. Unless I am interpreting the law incorrectly it should be all legal. Better be! Sorry about being off topic, won't say any more. Thanks

Mark75H · Apr 9, 2014

The work around is for the MD FFL to sell the magazine to the out of state FFL, who then sells it (or otherwise transfers it, I know of no law in the free states that prohibit gifting a magazine) to the end user. Wouldn't an invoice to the other FFL with a cost listed as 1¢ suffice?

No illegal transfer would occur.

USAFRavenR6 · Apr 9, 2014

The degree of hypothetical situations individuals on this forum construct are mind blowing. Stop over thinking relatively easy answers, ship the mags to a FFL/friend/resident of another state and then go get them. Discussion over, the MDSP are not going to waste resources through the launching of the pmag equaviliant to the JKF assassination on individuals bringing legal to own mags into Maryland. Just drop it.

SB281 Blaster · Apr 9, 2014

USAFRavenR6 said:
The degree of hypothetical situations individuals on this forum construct are mind blowing. Stop over thinking relatively easy answers, ship the mags to a FFL/friend/resident of another state and then go get them. Discussion over, the MDSP are not going to waste resources through the launching of the pmag equaviliant to the JKF assassination on individuals bringing legal to own mags into Maryland. Just drop it.

These are real life situations, but I agree that analyzing the law to the Nth degree can get a little ridiculous, but some of us find it fun. Just trying to make lemonade out of lemons. I consider my number one job to be to provide the fine citizens of this state everything they can legally have, in a legal way.

USAFRavenR6 · Apr 9, 2014

SB281 Blaster said:
These are real life situations, but I agree that analyzing the law to the Nth degree can get a little ridiculous, but some of us find it fun. Just trying to make lemonade out of lemons. I consider my number one job to be to provide the fine citizens of this state everything they can legally have, in a legal way.

Nope, I hear ya man and in no way shape or form was this directed at you or anyone in particular. Sorry if it came off that way.

viiper · Jun 9, 2014

All,

This thread seemed applicable to my current issue. I've gone back to read this thread to try to understand my options, but still feel lost. Any insights are appreciated.

March 2013 (yes, 2013, not 2014) I bought a Colt LE6943 (NFA Factory SBR) out of state from Clyde Armory, so Form 3 to my MD FFL dealer. It was delayed by Clyde not filing the Form 3 for a month or two, but eventually made it to the MD FFL. Back in Sept 2013 it was submitted via Form 4 (NFA Trust).

I have all the paperwork to show I bought this Colt Factory SBR in March 2013, but my FFL is advising that I will now need an HQL and he will have to petition the Handgun Roster Board and send the SBR to them for test firing and board approval, and eventual listing on the approved list. I was previously under the impression that what you bought before Oct 2013 was grandfathered in... but definitely does not seem to be the case now as I was hoping to prepare for getting the tax stamp, but see a new hurdle.

Colt lists the extended OAL on the LE6943 as 30.75", if it matters. Back in March 2013 I had no idea this would be seen as a pistol when I bought it.

DaemonAssassin · Jun 9, 2014

Wow guy. That's a new one.

smdub · Jun 9, 2014

Someone should submit a MAC-10 sbr and see if they can get it approved on the handgun roster

swinokur · Jun 9, 2014

IMO, and IANAL, the Oct 1 date applies to the actual purchase, which is legal. The new issue is that the MD statute says that a "handgun" cannot be sold or transferred without the firearm being on the roster. So it's the transfer date that is now the issue, not when the SBR was purchased.

Just my opinion and as I said IANAL.

Maybe Nate can enlighten us.

protegeV · Jun 9, 2014

Wow, talk about the ultimate lurker. 3 posts in 6 years :whoa:

DaemonAssassin · Jun 9, 2014

protegeV said:
Wow, talk about the ultimate lurker. 3 posts in 6 years

That takes a lot of self control with everything going on, here on MDS.

coopermania · Jun 9, 2014

There are Federal Interstate Commerce Laws protecting issues just like this.
The State of Maryland cannot inter fear with interstate commerce.

Kingjamez · Jun 9, 2014

swinokur said:
IMO, and IANAL, the Oct 1 date applies to the actual purchase, which is legal. The new issue is that the MD statute says that a "handgun" cannot be sold or transferred without the firearm being on the roster. So it's the transfer date that is now the issue, not when the SBR was purchased.

Just my opinion and as I said IANAL.

Maybe Nate can enlighten us.

Where does MD law say transferred? I can't find it.

-Jim

SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

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