Buying guns in VA but living in MD

Micktaco said:

What if I have a Florida driver's license, am registered to vote in FL and use that state as my legal residence, but i live in MD because I am military and that is where I am stationed, can I buy an AR15 lower receiver in VA? I don't want to beat around the bush or start a new thread so I figured I would just come out and ask.

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Micktaco said:

What if I have a Florida driver's license, am registered to vote in FL and use that state as my legal residence, but i live in MD because I am military and that is where I am stationed, can I buy an AR15 lower receiver in VA? I don't want to beat around the bush or start a new thread so I figured I would just come out and ask.

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novus collectus said:

According to MD, no. However there is some doubt, but don't chance it. That is federal law that "exempts" longguns from the in-state requirement.
If you are stationed in MD and your current house is in MD, then your place of residence is MD as far as purchasing firearms goes. And Fl. when he is there. So therefore when buying long guns from out of state it has to be legal in both that state and the state you reside in. SInce regulated firearms purchases must go through a MD regulated firearms dealer or the MDSP, you supposedly cannot buy a regulated lower in VA without involving a MD regulated firearm dealer. This is correct because an "other" regulated lower is not a longgun. There was a lot of ambiguity regarding this practice when the new 4473's first came out. The atf clarified it in one of their dealer newsletters so now ALL "other" firearms can only be sold in-state to 21 and over.Even FTF where not prohibited - Mossberg Cruiser for example.
However, an HBAR AR 15 is not regulated and you can buy one in VA no problem, but the MDSP has claimed that just lowers alone are regulated (unless maybe stamped HBAR????) so you will likely not be able to buy a lower alone in VA. Even if it is stamped HBAR it doesn't matter. It is what it is - an "other" firearm. Even if it was a rifle at one time it still is an "other". Now, you could only legally assemble the lower that was once a rifle into another rifle. Since Md. considers the lower to be "the" firearm then you could do a FTF sale on a HBAR stamped lower since the HBAR is not regulated per statute.NOt sure about this, but if maybe you bought an HBAR AR15 as unregulated and then went back and sold the upper back to the VA dealer, then I see nothing wrong with that.
I am not a lawyer.

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Waterdoor said:

Virginia is much better than Maryland as Maryland is a Communist Country. Except for driving laws, you are correct!

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novus collectus said:

According to MD, no. However there is some doubt, but don't chance it.

If you are stationed in MD and your current house is in MD, then your place of residence is MD as far as purchasing firearms goes. So therefore when buying long guns from out of state it has to be legal in both that state and the state you reside in. SInce regulated firearms purchases must go through a MD regulated firearms dealer or the MDSP, you supposedly cannot buy a regulated lower in VA without involving a MD regulated firearm dealer.

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Ab_Normal said:

I have read that the state of your "duty station" is also considered a residence. So theoretically I believe you could have a Fl. drivers license and a "residence", have an official duty station in Md. which is considered a "residence" regardless of whether you live there or not, and then actually live in Va/Pa/De/WV/etc. which would also be a "residence".

So you could actually purchase regulated firearms in 3 different states - legally. You could probably even buy one in your duty station state and one in another state the same day - maybe the same hour!

Not a bad perq for the military. Thank You for your service!!

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wyomingboy said:

One of the types of investigations I conduct at work are residency investigations. I've conducted a couple of thousand of them. Case law supporting the issue of residency in Maryland is limited to where you pay State income taxes and where you are registered to vote. Home ownership means nothing, the place of employment means nothing. Where relatives reside and where a second home is loacted means is nothing. There is no such thing as dual residency. For those who own homes in other States, they are just that - homes in other states. Do not confuse dual residences with dual residency. Other contributing circumstances to establish residency would be where one principally resides, where mail is principally received, where utilitiy bills are principally paid, where your children go to school, in State tuition issues and a host of other circumstantial data.

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For those who think they can have it both ways because you own a second home in another State or a relative resides in another State where you visit on a regular basis, tread lightly. In the example where someone use Maryland for the tax advantage, yet has a Pa driver's license, you are in violation. The information given was insufficient to determine what your State of residency really is, but let's assume that you are a Pa resident. If so, you are in violation of Pa State income tax laws. If you are a Maryland resident you are in violation of failing to acquire a Maryland driver's license... and I assume failing to register your vehicle(s) in Maryland. Bottom line is that you can't have it both ways. I wish it were so, for I own homes in multiple States, each having substantial financial and other advantages over Maryland.

As to gun purchases... the Maryland laws are fairly clear.

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State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present in a State
with the intention of making a home in that
State. If an individual is on active duty as a
member of the Armed Forces, the individual's
State of residence is the State in
which his or her permanent duty station is
located. An alien who is legally in the
United States shall be considered to be a
resident of a State only if the alien is residing
in the State and has resided in the
State for a period of at least 90 days prior
to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm.
The following are examples that illustrate
this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in
State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting,
fishing, business, or other type of trip. A
does not become a resident of State Y by
reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and
maintains a home in State X and a home
in State Y. A resides in State X except for
weekends or the summer months of the
year and in State Y for the weekends or
the summer months of the year. During
the time that A actually resides in State X,
A is a resident of State X, and during the
time that A actually resides in State Y, A is
a resident of State Y.

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Ab_Normal said:

That is federal law that "exempts" longguns from the in-state requirement.

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If you are stationed in MD and your current house is in MD, then your place of residence is MD as far as purchasing firearms goes.

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And Fl. when he is there.

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Since Md. considers the lower to be "the" firearm then you could do a FTF sale on a HBAR stamped lower since the HBAR is not regulated per statute.

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stlbluesaddict said:

As for military, one problem with being stationed in this area is the probability you will/can remain in this area for an extended period of time, yet move from one station to another. For example, a friend of mine was stationed at Fort Meade for a few years. he bought a home here in MD. As most of you know, we military usually retain state of residence at our home state where we enlisted. In the case of my friend, after his 3 years he took another assignment in the area, this assignment was in Virginia. Now, he has orders for Va, lives in MD, but has a drivers license in his home state. He is know unable to buy any regulated firearm. No one will touch him. Talk about a screwy situation.

Any advice for my friend? We were just discussing this very predicament a few weeks back.

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Markp said:

Novus, I think it is a little more complex than that. I think if you look into it the ATF faq ignores the possibility that a member might be "stationed" in one state, have a domicile in a second state, and have your home of record in a third state.

The ATF clearly states that you are a resident of a state if you are in that state and have intent to make a home there. I would assert that having a domicile in that state shows pretty clear intent "of making a home" in that state. While you are certainly not a Maryland state resident if you are living in VA, your orders would allow you to be treated as a resident for purposes of purchasing a weapon. Additionally, your legal domicile being in VA would allow you to purchase weapons as a resident of that state, and finally your home of record being Florida would entitle you to purchase weapons in that state when residing there.

It's not a common situation which is why I don't think the ATF FAQ addresses it, although it should.

Mark

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SALES TO MILITARY PERSONNEL –
RESIDENCY VERIFICATION
ATF has been asked to clarify how and when a
license dealer may sell a firearm to someone who is
on active duty with the Armed Forces. In
particular, how does the licensee verify that the
military person is a resident of their State and
therefore entitled to purchase a firearm? An active
duty member of the Armed Forces may have
more than one State of residence. The Gun
Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of
the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of
the State in which his or her permanent duty station
is located. However, the GCA’s general definition
of State of residence may also apply to some
active duty members. The general definition of
State of residence is the State in which an individual
resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she
is present in a State with an intention of making a
home in the State. If a member of the Armed
Forces maintains a home in one State and the
member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby
State to which he or she commutes each day, then
the member is considered a resident of both the
State in which his or her duty station is located and
the State in which his or her home is maintained,
and he or she may purchase a firearm in either
State.
As directed by the instructions contained in the
Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473,
any member of the Armed Forces on active duty
acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her
permanent duty station is located who does not
reside at his or her permanent duty station, must
list both his or her permanent duty station address
and his or her residence address in response to
Question 2. Further, in situations where the
transferee is an active duty military member
acquiring a firearm where his or her duty station is
located, but he or she has a driver’s license from
another State, you should list the transferee’s
military identification card and official orders
showing where his or her permanent duty station is
located in response to Question 18a.
Andrews Air Force Base is located in Maryland. A
member of the Armed Forces stationed at
Andrews Air Force Base who resides in Virginia,
but commutes to work at Andrews Air Force Base
would be considered to be a resident of both
Virginia and Maryland. However, a member
stationed at Andrews who resides in Maryland
would be considered only to be a resident of
Maryland.

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buzzzyy said:

What about person to person sales in VA?

I've seen "MD regulated" firearms being sold P2P at VA gun shows.

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novus collectus said:

Mark, what I quoted was not from the ATF FAQ, it was directly from the ATF regulations.
However, this does not mean you are wrong because you might have a point that even the regulations failed to conceive this point of yours.

This is an ATF newsletter about the subject (note, the questions this refers to may be different now because they may have updated the forms, but the back section of the current 4473 has instructions for the dealer to follow and explains what to do in case of your military friend, stlbluesaddic).



http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2004-08.pdf

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novus collectus said:

Military can only have two states of residence at most. Do you have a reference to a law for this?For instance, in the above scenario where a person has a FL DL and a residence in FL, but also has a residence in VA and is stationed over the border in MD, they can only buy as a resident of VA and MD.
If the residence was in MD, the permanent duty station was in MD and they had a residence in FL and a FL DL, they can only purchase as a MD resident and cannot purchase in FL as a FL resident according to ATF regulations.

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novus collectus said:

Federal law states the long gun purchase has to be legal in both states.

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