Franklin Armory's XO26

dtmeyers · Nov 5, 2015

A previous post got me thinking... any legal issue with building a 'firearm' with vertical grip and all akin to:

http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_BFS-XO-26_S.html

considering that Maryland law states that if the barrel length is <16" it is a handgun?

Or... even crazier... what if you get a 20" AR15 upper in 22lr (to keep it bufferless) so it is over 26" in length and put a vfg on it?

protegeV · Nov 5, 2015

Afaik, a vfg on a pistol is a no no.

gre24ene · Nov 5, 2015

No go on the vertical grip. Angles forward grip is GTG

dontpanic · Nov 5, 2015

I thought >26" OAL then a VFG is GTG on a pistol. Could be wrong of course. It then becomes a "firearm"

https://m.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/2ppgy2/psa_yes_you_can_put_a_vfg_on_an_ar_pistol_if_the/

Pmbspyder · Nov 5, 2015

You are correct. If OAL is longer than 26" and you attach a VFG, it becomes a firearm. Take off the VFG and it's a pistol again. It's a grey area but perfectly allowable as outlined in several BATFE letters.

BigDaddy · Nov 6, 2015

Edit I seem to be the source of misinformation.

Pmbspyder · Nov 6, 2015

A lot of misinformation in this thread...

dontpanic · Nov 6, 2015

BigDaddy said:
Don't confuse MD with the rest of the non-communist states.
a .22lr can be <29" but a centerfire cannot be <29" as a SBR in the PR of MD.

AOW, I thought (but was wrong) was limited to weird stuff like cane guns. However I found an ATF letter that said adding a VFG to a pistol would need a Form 1 and tax stamp. However MD bans "assault pistols" so it is still no good here.

We're talking pistols, not SBRs. Thier is no min OAL for a pistol.
Pistol with vfg <26"=stamp
Pistol with vfg >26"=no stamp

Pmbspyder said:
A lot of misinformation in this thread...

Care to elaborate?

Pmbspyder · Nov 6, 2015

dontpanic said:
We're talking pistols, not SBRs. Thier is no min OAL for a pistol.
Pistol with vfg <26"=stamp
Pistol with vfg >26"=no stamp

Care to elaborate?

Sure, every post in this thread is wrong except for what you and I have posted lol.

tc617 · Nov 6, 2015

FIFY

protegeV said:
Afaik, a vfg on a pistol with an OAL less than 26" is a no no.

gre24ene said:
No go on the vertical grip with an OAL less than 26". Angles forward grip is GTG

Both firearms built on pre-FSA'13 lowers and assembled before October 1, 2013.

Top: AR-15 with 28" OAL, 11.5" barrel, no buttstock, and vertical foward grip. The yard stick is marked at 26" with black tape.

Per BATFE regulations, this is not a handgun because it has a VFG and not designed to be fired with a single hand. It is not a rifle or subject to the NFA/SBR classification because it is not designed to be shoulder fired. It is not subject to NFA/AOW classification because it has an OAL greater than 26" and is not concealable upon one's body. I believe the BATFE classifies this as a Class 1 firearm.

Bottom: Form-1 SBR with 24.5" OAL.

Here is the ATF leter that discusses the legality of the TOP firearm.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

dontpanic · Nov 6, 2015

Pmbspyder said:
Sure, every post in this thread is wrong except for what you and I have posted lol.

dtmeyers · Nov 6, 2015

So bringing this back around again... Could the top firearm in tc617's post (#10) be made with a post 10/1 lower?

I know ar15s pistols are fine, non-hbar ar15s are no-go, but what about ar15 'firearms' akin to the xo26??

dontpanic · Nov 6, 2015

Yes you can build it. OAL must be >26". Pistol does not have to be HBAR. There was a letter posted here where MSP ruled post 10/13 pistols did not need to be HBAR.

Ban does not apply. It is not a long gun.

gre24ene · Nov 6, 2015

I stand corrected.

Now I have a question:
If a pistol is transferred as a "pistol" if the gun reaches 26.25 inches would it be legal to put a vertical grip?
Specifically the Cz scorpion

dtmeyers · Nov 6, 2015

dontpanic said:
Yes you can build it. OAL must be >29". Pistol does not have to be HBAR. There was a letter posted here where MSP ruled post 10/13 pistols did not need to be HBAR.

Ban does not apply. It is not a long gun.

Why 29"

From SB281: A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 29 INCHES - it is not a rifle

gre24ene said:
I stand corrected.

Now I have a question:
If a pistol is transferred as a "pistol" if the gun reaches 26.25 inches would it be legal to put a vertical grip?
Specifically the Cz scorpion

That is pretty much what I am asking too. A pistol once it reaches over 26" and gets a vfg is no longer a pistol/handgun per Federal Law - It is a 'firearm' per the ATF. BUT MD law states "(2) Handgun' means a Firearm with a Barrel less than 16 inches in length"

So you would have a handgun under Maryland law but a Firearm under Federal Law - that's my concern and question.

Edit: Well it looks like 'Black Aces Tactical 12ga' just made it on the handgun roster. That is a 'firearm' with a vfg and has a barrel <16". An XO26 clone might be g2g after all

452ad6_6523620c283640c2a01748719b36b7fd.jpg_srb_p_592_500_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb

protegeV · Nov 6, 2015

dtmeyers said:
Why 29"

From SB281: A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 29 INCHES - it is not a rifle

That is pretty much what I am asking too. A pistol once it reaches over 26" and gets a vfg is no longer a pistol/handgun per Federal Law - It is a 'firearm' per the ATF. BUT MD law states "(2) Handgun' means a Firearm with a Barrel less than 16 inches in length"

So you would have a handgun under Maryland law but a Firearm under Federal Law - that's my concern and question.

Edit: Well it looks like 'Black Aces Tactical 12ga' just made it on the handgun roster. That is a 'firearm' with a vfg and has a barrel <16". An XO26 clone might be g2g after all

Id like to see that fired "from the cheek".....

dontpanic · Nov 6, 2015

dtmeyers said:
Why 29"

From SB281: A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 29 INCHES - it is not a rifle

That is pretty much what I am asking too. A pistol once it reaches over 26" and gets a vfg is no longer a pistol/handgun per Federal Law - It is a 'firearm' per the ATF. BUT MD law states "(2) Handgun' means a Firearm with a Barrel less than 16 inches in length"

So you would have a handgun under Maryland law but a Firearm under Federal Law - that's my concern and question.

Edit: Well it looks like 'Black Aces Tactical 12ga' just made it on the handgun roster. That is a 'firearm' with a vfg and has a barrel <16". An XO26 clone might be g2g after all

Sorry meant 26" like the previous 5 times.
(With the SBR OAL 29" is always on my mind) :shrug:

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