Outdoor powder storage

I've been thinking about storing some of my smokeless powder outside in my shed. Will that affect the powder? Are there steps to take to make sure it doesn't ruin the powder?

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NO!

Nothing dangerous about storing powder indoors.

No, don't do it or no, it won't affect the powder?

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Don't do it.

Moisture be bad.

Room temperature and climate controlled be best.

sgt23preston said:

Think about the humidity of everything in your shed & the drastic changes in temperature from 0 - 120...

It's not a good idea...

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^^This.


Heat. Cold. Dry. Humid. Rainy conditions.
Rodents (possibly).

Don't do it. For all that's good and non-politically correct..... NEVER store powder or ammunition in an area that doesn't have some sort of climate control.

Powder needs stability.

I kinda figured. If I did it, I was going to put the powder in a sealed waterproof box, but it's probably best to keep it indoors.

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Since Maryland limits you to no more than 5 pounds of powder at a time why would you want to?

Blacksmith101 said:

Since Maryland limits you to no more than 5 pounds of powder at a time why would you want to?

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Do they really?! That's terrible. I don't want to think about, and you guys would be hurt to know how much powder I have in my (air conditioned and heated) garage. My reloading supplier is at the very top of Phoenix, while I'm at the very bottom, so I make it a point to avoid making that trip often, if you catch my drift. Think of driving from DC to Baltimore, but on the urban, congested parts of 295 the entire way.

Extreme changes in tempature especially heat will destroy powder. I'll post powder storage from SAAMI I uploaded years ago in a few minutes. I bought some AA5 powder from a gun show and noticed my storage cabinet was covered in what looked like rust. I traced it to that can. It had the acidic smell and looked like crap. Apparently it was stored in a hot environment.

http://www.mdshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31395&d=1294965026

I'm curious about Bob's shed now. I saw no a/c. But I could be wrong and sure I am knowing him.

Is my buried 5 lb stash considered controlled at 12" deep? Just kidding but again curious given the md rules.

Blacksmith101 said:

Since Maryland limits you to no more than 5 pounds of powder at a time why would you want to?

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Isn't that 5 lbs per person in the household?

j_h_smith said:

Isn't that 5 lbs per person in the household?

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I believe it states possession so if your home alone one day?....
Curious again.

Now, y'all got me wondering:

If stored powder (properly sealed) is subjected to extreme heat ranges, why would it be no good?

Loaded ammunition is subjected to the same extremes all over this planet, yet functions where and when needed.

I have loaded ammunition for over 40 years and have not experienced one problem with stored powder that has been subjected to extremes.

My $0.02 worth.

ThunderStick said:

Now, y'all got me wondering:

If stored powder (properly sealed) is subjected to extreme heat ranges, why would it be no good?

Loaded ammunition is subjected to the same extremes all over this planet, yet functions where and when needed.

I have loaded ammunition for over 40 years and have not experienced one problem with stored powder that has been subjected to extremes.

My $0.02 worth.

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Just a quick thought..........

I have read where some shooters (read as military snipers) have laid their ammo out, and let it get heated up by the sun, to get more range out of the loaded rounds.



I'm no expert on the subject, but, it seems that putting the ammo in the sun, will raise the temperature, which will affect pressures, which will give a longer distance (change ballistics) of the round.

With that said, shouldn't temperature extremes affect a given lot of loaded ammo???? (Maybe to the point of being dangerous.)


Everything that I've learned about ammo, states to keep it in moderate temperatures.
(War is different.)

I found this on another forum and it is quite informative. Nice to know I had a potential fire hazard in my powder storage locker. By the tome I found the powder it was cracked red with red dust like powder all over the inside of the storage locker.

SlamFire1
May 6, 2010, 07:32 PM
I have access to a gentleman who is an energetics expert. I asked him about smokeless powder lifetime. The whole topic is a subset of “Insensitive Munitions”. A term you can Google and find bits and pieces in the public domain.

Smokeless propellants are used in more applications that just cartridges. Rocket motors, explosive warheads, these all use smokeless propellants.

He told me that powder starts deteriorating the day it leaves the powder mill. The rate of deterioration of double based powders is governed by the Arrhenius equation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation. The hotter it is, the faster it goes. Single based powders apparently deteriorate in a linear fashion.

What the expert told me was that double base powders are made of nitroglycerine (NG) and nitrocellulose (NC). The NG wants to wick its way, through capillary action, into the NC. Forming a lower energy state compound. In the process of combination nitric acid gas is released. As nature wants to go to a lower energy state, this reaction is inevitable. There are preventive stabilizers in the powder which eat up the nitric acid. The stabilizers get consumed over time.

Exposing powder to high temperatures for extended periods of time is bad. Heat accelerates the reduction-oxidation process.

Cool dry storage conditions, he actually said “artic”, are about the best for long term storage of powder.

The expert said that Navy powders are initially tested at 10 years. They put a litmus paper in contact with the powder. If the paper changes color, nitric gas is present.

If the paper shows a problem, they then chemically test the powder for the amount of stabilizer in the powder. If that drops below 20% original, than the powder is scrapped. You have to have the original powder records to know how much stabilizer was in the powder when it was made.

The Army scraps by clock time. Double based powders are scrapped at 20 years, single based 45 years.

A few years ago TALON released tons of demilled military powders. That stuff was at the end of its service life. Half of my surplus 4895 powders went bad. One keg turned red and was outgassing and it was poured out on the lawn. About 8 pounds did not turn red, but went bad in the case.

First indications that I had a problem were that I had a lot of split case necks on fired cartridges. Then case necks started to crack on unfired ammunition. When I pulled bullets, I smelt nothing, in the case or in the bottle, but I found green corrosion on the bottom of bullets. I believe that nitric acid was weakening the work hardened areas of the case, and causing corrosion on the bottom of the bullets.

Incidentally, the powder shot exceptionally well in cases that did not have case neck cracks. I shot some exceptional scores with the stuff at 600 yards with 168 Match bullets. I had "funny" retorts on some rounds. The expert said as the surface of gun powder changes, burn rates are affected.

If the powder changes color, it is bad. It is grossly bad. It was bad a long time before the color changed. And it is time to pour it out. That is when you typically see red rust in a metal powder can (acid gas eating the can up) and red powder.

I was told that when enough nitric acid is released, the powder will spontaneously combust. The expert diagramed the chemical reaction and hot spots can develop as energy is released. As the Military is extremely scandal sensitive, they won’t tell anyone that big bunkers have blown up, but they have. Ammunition depots go Kaboom all the time due to old ammunition spontaneously combusting. You can Google this and find incident reports in the literature. But you won’t find mention of some of the American ammunition incidents that this expert investigated. We Googled one incident he wrote a report on and found nothing in the public domain.

Government Rule #2: Minimize Scandal.

Water is bad for smokeless gun powders as it damages the powder surface and wicks NG to the surface. Even through age is reducing the total energy content of the powder , wicking NG to the surface will increase the initial burn rate of the propellant, which has lead to pressure spikes.

Contact with rust is bad for powders. As I understand contact with iron oxide increases the rate of the reduction-oxidation reaction.

The Navy used to store cannon powder in pools but the powder was to be recycled. I guess the water absorbed the nitric acid and kept everything cool, preventing heat build up. But the expert told me that the dry lifetime of powder is rapidly reduced after exposure to water.

good find molonlabe

Technically it is explosive then and not just extremely flammable?
Lets keep this quiet so no new laws are enacted.

I am looking at an old jar of Red Dot in my hand that reads "extremely flammable and explosive", the powder looks and smells fine and is about 25 years old wondering if new stuff is different somehow. Hendershots $11.99 25 yrs old= time b*mb?
I am in no way being negative.

I just tested some and it burned Very fast and furious!!

I think that powder has met it's end of life. So just go ahead and send it over to me and I'll take of it for you...

j_h_smith said:

I think that powder has met it's end of life. So just go ahead and send it over to me and I'll take of it for you...

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I knew that would come up as soon as I hit submit

What is the largest brass container available to store powder in ... with a FMJ lid