Very odd visit from the ATF.

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  • Murple

    Active Member
    Mar 25, 2009
    161
    Severna Park
    I took a friend of mind to the range with me [...] he's been charged with a crime in Baltimore County.

    You didn't really say, but is it safe to infer that he brought his own (illegally purchased) gun?

    Asking because I initially read your post to mean that your friend was being charged because he briefly "possessed" your firearm(s) at the range. I guess my question really boils down to whether it's illegal for a prohibited person to go shooting with a buddy. (I assumed the prohibition was against *owning* guns.)
     

    Safetech

    I open big metal boxes
    May 28, 2011
    4,454
    Dundock
    You didn't really say, but is it safe to infer that he brought his own (illegally purchased) gun?

    Asking because I initially read your post to mean that your friend was being charged because he briefly "possessed" your firearm(s) at the range. I guess my question really boils down to whether it's illegal for a prohibited person to go shooting with a buddy. (I assumed the prohibition was against *owning* guns.)



    Nope. He used mine. Sorry for not being clearer on that.

    He owns no firearms. Never has. But he was going to get one, and asked me to help him pick one out before all this happened. Fortunately, he found out about the problem before he started looking for one.


    Here's the letter that I wrote:

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    To whom it may concern:

    Let me preface this by saying that it was my intention to be in court today. But due to a death in the family, I will be attending a funeral at noon.

    Last year I took my life-long friend, XXXXX XXXXXXX, to XXXXXXX Gun Range, where I hold a Family Membership. While there, I let him use my handgun. And at no time, did he have possession of it outside of the range.

    It was my idea to take XXXXX to the range that day. And had I known that he was a “prohibited person”, I would have never even suggested the trip. I just thought it would be fun to take my oldest friend to try out a hobby that my wife and I enjoy on a regular basis.

    When we got there, XXXXX filled out the standard form to use the range, but he misunderstood the wording on the form. There was nothing deceitful or dishonest about it. And I am 100% certain that if he had understood what he was reading, he would have mentioned his past incident to me for clarification. At which point, I could have clarified it for him. And we would have left immediately.

    XXXXX is a good man, whom I have known since we were four years old. We met in Kindergarten, and soon after, found out that our fathers were long time “hunting buddies”. We have been friends ever since. I know him to be a decent, honest man.

    He and his family are already going through a rough time financially, because of his health problems. And to make matters worse, he recently suffered a heart attack, and was hospitalized. I can’t imagine the additional stress this matter is putting on him.

    This was a one-time thing, that I am positive will never happen again. And I would beg the court to see this for what it is: Not a purposeful disregard of the law, but a simple misunderstanding. If ever there was a case where leniency should be dispensed, this is it.

    I would ask that you please show mercy in this case by not adding further to his financial burden with a fine, or his health decline, through the stress this incident has presented.

    In my opinion, justice would not be served, by punishing a good man any further, for an honest mistake.


    Sincerely,

    XXXXX


    PS: I will be with family today. But I will keep my cell phone on “silent”, in case you have any further questions for me, or I can be of any further assistance in coming to a fair conclusion to this ordeal for him.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
     

    Murple

    Active Member
    Mar 25, 2009
    161
    Severna Park
    Nope. He used mine.

    Sorry for belaboring the point, but that's the law he broke? It's illegal for a "prohibited person" to fire a gun (or even handle one, I suppose)? I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I like taking folks to the range, and it never dawned on me somebody with a record could go to jail for shooting trap with a borrowed gun.
     

    MdGunFiend

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 26, 2012
    189
    Sorry for belaboring the point, but that's the law he broke? It's illegal for a "prohibited person" to fire a gun (or even handle one, I suppose)? I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I like taking folks to the range, and it never dawned on me somebody with a record could go to jail for shooting trap with a borrowed gun.

    Well I guess we would need to know that person's exact restrictions. If its stated he can't possess a gun at all,then obviously shooting the gun at a range would be in violation. I mean you don't have to own what u possess, a gun is a gun no matter the owner.to handle or shoot u have to possess.I don't see how there could be any confusion in this.
     

    Safetech

    I open big metal boxes
    May 28, 2011
    4,454
    Dundock
    it never dawned on me somebody with a record could go to jail for shooting trap with a borrowed gun.


    Yep!

    If you were convicted of (or plead guilty to) any felony, or a misdemeanor for which you *could have* received a two years sentence - even if (like in my friend's case) you only got probation, you are a "prohibited person".

    (IANAL)
     

    Darkemp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,808
    Marylandistan
    Sorry for belaboring the point, but that's the law he broke? It's illegal for a "prohibited person" to fire a gun (or even handle one, I suppose)? I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I like taking folks to the range, and it never dawned on me somebody with a record could go to jail for shooting trap with a borrowed gun.

    Prohibited person cannot handle or have access to any firearm in any way. They could even rack up another charge for possession of ammunition, simply buying shotgun shells at Walmart would be enough.
     

    Jackalope

    Active Member
    Well THANK GOD all other crimes have been solved in the whole damn state for them to worry about someone going to a range to fire a friends gun. *rollseyes*

    I work for the railroad and we have our own police dept that has retired MD state police as its officers and we have a few X state police working their as railroaders cause our retirement and medical is sooooo much better then what they would wind up with if they retired from the state police and they all agree they've never heard of anyone being locked up for or getting in trouble for going to a range and firing off a few rounds from a friends gun. Now true they don't know every case in the state but with their combined years of service in the 150 year range I have no reason to doubt them. I know its illegal for it to happen but seriously what is the punishment if they do? I mean they already can't own a gun so what are they looking at?
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Well THANK GOD all other crimes have been solved in the whole damn state for them to worry about someone going to a range to fire a friends gun. *rollseyes*

    I work for the railroad and we have our own police dept that has retired MD state police as its officers and we have a few X state police working their as railroaders cause our retirement and medical is sooooo much better then what they would wind up with if they retired from the state police and they all agree they've never heard of anyone being locked up for or getting in trouble for going to a range and firing off a few rounds from a friends gun. Now true they don't know every case in the state but with their combined years of service in the 150 year range I have no reason to doubt them. I know its illegal for it to happen but seriously what is the punishment if they do? I mean they already can't own a gun so what are they looking at?

    People get charged all the time for being a "prohibited" person and renting a gun at the range....no different then borrowing a friends gun and shooting if your a prohibitive person.
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,578
    Hazzard County
    What if they dont have a card?

    Who's to say the card isnt fake?
    Every legit investigator will have a card. You can't expect contacts to hold onto a random scrap of paper with your number/number on it, a legit business card is more likely to be retained.

    If its fake, then you have a physical piece of evidence that someone is impersonating a police officer, and their claimed organization will be VERY interested in them.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Every legit investigator will have a card. You can't expect contacts to hold onto a random scrap of paper with your number/number on it, a legit business card is more likely to be retained.

    If its fake, then you have a physical piece of evidence that someone is impersonating a police officer, and their claimed organization will be VERY interested in them.

    So every officer or investigator has cards....

    Good to know.

    Hope they never leave them in the office by mistake or think the encounter was to meaningless to give you one.

    Yup...a peice of paper with a fake name on it...that'll really help that police impersonating case.
     

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