NFA MG Scams Skyrocketing???

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  • IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Has anyone else noticed Scams are all over the place all the sudden? I mean its getting hard to buy a gun at all anymore! Just this year:

    1. Buying SPAS 12. Had someone send pictures of one in the box. Found pictures in old Auction and offering to me for less than auction price. Claimed he could not send any more pictures. $1500 off Sturmgewehr

    2. Colt Registered SP1 FA conversion. Sent pictures and copy of form 4. Price was to good to be true. Form 4 look almost great! Almost! OAL filled out wrong. Marked as if SOT had received it. Redacted seller info. Very very good computer faked form 4. Called and talked to him on the phone. Looked larger than Mike Tyson but sounded middle eastern. Found seller on sex offender registry having done 23 months. Called ATF and confirmed gun was not registered! $10K off Sturmgewehr

    3. Registered FNC for a friend. Good pictures but converted by Colt... don't think so. Could not answer any more questions and stopped emailing. $7.5K on Sturmgewehr

    4. Registered FNC for a friend. Great pictures, caught by subguns.com. $7.2K

    Thats just guns I have been looking for! Where are they high tech scams coming from? These people know a fair amount about the guns and the process. As you may be able to tell, the second scam on the list came very close to fooling me! If I did not have that sinking feeling I would be out $5K right now!

    Has the Government created a funding source for terrorists? Its seeming to me that this is a being done by groups of skilled scammers. They are faking form 4s and getting good pictures of the correct guns to go with them. Since these are tax documents most at the ATF will not confirm the serial number is even in the registry unless you tell them you think you are getting scammed. So there is no good way to even figure out if the gun is legally owned. With the prices having grown so high and money sent so quick, it seems like easy pickings for a terrorists trying to fund their evil goals. Just be careful, as you can see they have tried to scam $25K out of me and my friend this year... Its getting to the point where a phone interview and a call to the ATF is required on these large purchases...
     

    Afdiesel

    Member
    Mar 7, 2013
    70
    Middletown
    I've noticed a few on form 4 in Chicago. I don't think so....
    That's why I like going through a dealer out of state. You know the guy is reasonably legit being an sot. The best part is not having to give owe-malley 6% to use against us.
     

    Kingjamez

    Gun Builder
    Oct 22, 2009
    2,042
    Fairfax, VA
    I saw a lot of scams when I was shopping recently. My litmus test was to get the seller to send a photo of the Form 4 with a note saying Hi Jim! On top of the form. That filtered out all of the scams.

    -Jim
     

    bobthefisher

    Durka ninja
    Aug 18, 2010
    1,214
    Definitely not where you are!
    Ditto, $11k on ArmsList for a non-colt (stop sign marked) M16. SCAM! The balls on these ass-clowns, that's like three felonies! Tried to get the guy to take a picture of the firearm with a kitchen fork. Never got a response, then got an email from ArmsList stating that it's been flagged as a scam.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    I think you're overreacting a bit about terrorism. Why go there, when the most likely scenario is still good old-fashioned greed?

    Could be. However you were not on the phone with this big Black Guy from NC that sounded a lot like Osama. Thats what got me thinking along that line. How many people do you think sent him $5K for that fake form 4...? Sure would be an easy way to fund their operations. I guess I don't need to make that connection but there sure does seem to be a lot of scams this year. I mean like 100x what it was last year... Either all the criminals got the idea at once or something...

    NFA always seems like a bad place for normal scammers. The ATF does tend to go after those who might have illegal MGs. This guy provided good pictures with the serial number that match the form 4. Sure made it seem like he has the gun and is part of the reason I almost fell for it.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Look how good this form 4 is. I added the Red Fake Markings of course! That will the pictures of the receiver and several pictures of the gun in different light and positions. All from a pretty rare SP1 Carbine which is different than a SP1.

    Jim, how easy do you think it would be to print this and add a sticky to it with "Hi Jim" on it and rescan it! You are better off making them add the sticky to the gun in the picture with the serial number.

    form 4 sp1 (1).jpg

    sp1 MG,.jpg

    sp1MG.jpg
     

    Les Gawlik

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 2, 2009
    3,384
    I saw a lot of scams when I was shopping recently. My litmus test was to get the seller to send a photo of the Form 4 with a note saying Hi Jim! On top of the form. That filtered out all of the scams.

    -Jim

    I don't understand that. The scammers can fake a document brilliantly but can't print it out, write a post-it note and take a cell phone pic? Maybe they should talk to the guys who came up with the birth certificate.
     

    Kingjamez

    Gun Builder
    Oct 22, 2009
    2,042
    Fairfax, VA
    I don't understand that. The scammers can fake a document brilliantly but can't print it out, write a post-it note and take a cell phone pic? Maybe they should talk to the guys who came up with the birth certificate.

    I never had anybody go to those lengths. This request went unanswered by almost everybody I asked for more info from.... until I received the below photo from the guy I bought my M11 from.

    -Jim
     

    Attachments

    • M11.jpeg
      M11.jpeg
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    awptickes

    Member
    Jun 26, 2011
    1,516
    N. Of Perryville
    This is all very simple. Ask for the serial number. Call the ATF and explain that you're going to buy this, and you want to confirm that it's all correct.

    Doing that actually saved me a couple months back with an M16a1 that turned out to be not so much an m16a1 as it was a very very good unregistered machine gun with a really good fake form 4.
     

    A1Uni

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2012
    4,842
    The answer as to why so many NFA items are scam items is relatively simple.

    These items command huge amounts of money. One successful scam involving NFA firearms can net a criminal more at one time than selling 15 or 20 alleged rare pistols or the like.

    Less work too.

    Unless I personally knew the seller there is no way I would plunk down 15 or 20K for a MG I had never even put my hands on.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Haryford CT:lol2:

    Haha... I missed that!

    ...
    Unless I personally knew the seller there is no way I would plunk down 15 or 20K for a MG I had never even put my hands on.

    You are not going to buy many MGs then or you are going to pay a premium on them all.

    I have bought 5 MGs now. I knew one of the sellers somewhat... that is a met him to had him the money and check out the gun!
     

    FoxFirearms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 13, 2013
    242
    Columbia, MD
    The best option you have is to find a third party payment service (not paypal), so when you get the rifle, you contact them and they will release the funds to the seller. If it's a fake, send it back and you will get a refund when the return signature confirmation is provided.
     

    TheDevilHimself

    , Duffy's Gun Room
    Industry Partner
    Jul 15, 2011
    1,807
    Sparks, MD
    Any high dollar MG is worth the cost of a round trip airline ticket to view the gun in person. Before dropping the dough, invest a day or weekend of your time and 1-3% of the purchase price and inspect it. It's worth it, as you can walk away dissuaded of any potential concerns and you may even make a new friend along the way. There are still a lot of old timers out there with good guns and better stories.
     

    bobthefisher

    Durka ninja
    Aug 18, 2010
    1,214
    Definitely not where you are!
    Any high dollar MG is worth the cost of a round trip airline ticket to view the gun in person. Before dropping the dough, invest a day or weekend of your time and 1-3% of the purchase price and inspect it. It's worth it, as you can walk away dissuaded of any potential concerns and you may even make a new friend along the way. There are still a lot of old timers out there with good guns and better stories.

    Take your level headed tactics and good advice somewhere else! :mad54:

    As always, good words to follow.
     

    huesmann

    n00b
    Mar 23, 2012
    1,927
    Silver Spring, MD
    The best option you have is to find a third party payment service (not paypal), so when you get the rifle, you contact them and they will release the funds to the seller. If it's a fake, send it back and you will get a refund when the return signature confirmation is provided.
    You mean an escrow service?
     

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