Gun search question at traffic stop based on NRA sticker

gamer_jim · Jul 19, 2014

Darkseed said:
I was pulled over this evening as my drivers tail light was out (which is ok - had no idea). BUT after asking for license and registration i was asked how many guns were in my vehicle. I replied none. By this point there were 4 patrol cars behind my vehicle. I was asked if i would consent to a search, which i did not consent to. Cop went and ran my details, issued a repair order, and sent me on my way. My question is - is this 'fishing' legal - i got the sense my reply to the question could have turned this into a full blown search, detainment etc. I was merely driving home from work with a tail light out and an nra sticker on my car, dressed in business attire...

Cops can ask. It's been discussed here a lot and some attorneys on this board provided case law that a cop can even do a "safety search" (which can include your glove compartment but not trunk) during a traffic stop without PC.

As far a stickers go, I don't think it matters anymore. Cops have access to the MD firearms registry so they could know before they walk to your vehicle if you own.

Darkseed · Jul 19, 2014

The fact that got me was not the stop for the tail light, not the question about firearms in the vehicle... it was a specific quote of:

"i'm only asking about guns as you have an NRA sticker on your vehicle"

Which is why is wish my camera was recording... I held my tongue as i wanted to enter a tirade about other stickers and their implications etc.

Mark75H · Jul 19, 2014

Fishguy said:
The officer can ask any question he wants, it is a free country. If you want to, you can tell him to pound sand or say nothing, that is your right as well.

If I recall some jurisdictions have "failing to respond to a police question" as a crime ... which is completely unconstitutional

Darkseed said:
The fact that got me was not the stop for the tail light, not the question about firearms in the vehicle... it was a specific quote of:

"i'm only asking about guns as you have an NRA sticker on your vehicle"

Which is why is wish my camera was recording... I held my tongue as i wanted to enter a tirade about other stickers and their implications etc.

Did you post this quote earlier? I missed it

Another question ... what style of car? Prius? (haha) Econobox? Small sedan? Sportscar? Sporty car? SUV? US V-8 4 door sedan?

swinokur · Jul 19, 2014

I would surmise that law would be in connection with a boan fide police investigation. How would simply not answering be a crime if there is no investigation?

Just asking.

Mark75H · Jul 19, 2014

I am for LEO's stopping vehicles for minor infractions ... I live near one of MD's "drug highways" The more mules and dealers they take off the street the better.

Saw a really cool takedown about a month ago ... they were tailing a guy who they thought would rabbit out onto the highway ... he took off ... not knowing that they had an unmarked car in front of him. Blocked and boxed in about 5 seconds after he nailed it.

There must be at least a small amount of embarrassment to being handcuffed facedown in the street without your shoes on.

To the guy who stole my NRA magnet off my van ... I hope some anti keys your car

Back to the original topic ... I will not consent to a search and hope I am never profiled

Mark75H · Jul 19, 2014

swinokur said:
I would surmise that law would be in connection with a boan fide police investigation. How would simply not answering be a crime if there is no investigation?

Just asking.

Pretty sure you do have to identify yourself if asked as well (even if just a pedestrian).

I feel this is an illegal intrusion too, but I'm pretty certain courts have upheld it

Darkseed · Jul 19, 2014

Smart car... so yeah, very intimidating lol

swinokur · Jul 19, 2014

ID'ing yourself is different than answering an officer's questions during a stop IMO.

splitting hairs for sure. You may have to ID yourself and then shutup. No law broken there.

dblas · Jul 19, 2014

SRD said:
I wonder if the question of guns came up because msp ran the tag and not due to the sticker.

They have no direct access to the firearms registry based on license plate.

gamer_jim said:
Cops can ask. It's been discussed here a lot and some attorneys on this board provided case law that a cop can even do a "safety search" (which can include your glove compartment but not trunk) during a traffic stop without PC.

As far a stickers go, I don't think it matters anymore. Cops have access to the MD firearms registry so they could know before they walk to your vehicle if you own.

Um, not based on license plate or drivers license and not even in the same database, nor are the two connected. So, no, unless they know the driver by site, can they look you up to see if you have firearms and what you have.

swinokur · Jul 19, 2014

Darkseed said:
Smart car... so yeah, very intimidating lol

Mo Co is planning on using these to intimidate the libtards where I live.
.
.

Darkseed · Jul 19, 2014

maybe he just wanted a look at his future 'ride' lol

redeemed.man · Jul 19, 2014

strapped said:
Did it hurt your feelings or something? You were asked questions, your rights were respected, not violated. Move along.

I see no harm in the common folks debating the actions of government agents. So far it has not become a LEO bashing thread so I say nice job thus far folks!

redeemed.man · Jul 19, 2014

swinokur said:
Mo Co is planning on using these to intimidate the libtards where I live.
.
.

So they want to intimidate the entire Bethesda community minus you?

swinokur · Jul 19, 2014

yep. i ain't skeered of no po po !!

Sundazes · Jul 19, 2014

Darkseed said:
Smart car... so yeah, very intimidating lol

Can you even fit any firearms or contraband in one of those?

GUNSnROTORS · Jul 19, 2014

Have had conspicuous 2A stickers on my vehicle for over a year. Back in May, turned my rear window into a ‘2A Mural of Freedom’. Have had zero issues in MD. Drive 120+ miles in the state every day for work. On other trips, have encountered MSP and LEOs from maybe a dozen counties and have been followed for many miles – but never stopped. On the advice of Huck, added some “Cav Hoah” and other evidences of my combat veteran status. Unfortunately, the current libtard mindset will find dot.mil even more threatening than 2A. :sad20:

My philosophy is that there are libtards in every walk of life. If some bean sprout-eating, Prius-peddling libtard calls in a dishonest complaint while I’m driving, LEOs are duty-bound to respond. Hopefully my character (and LEO’s) will see me through the event.

Related to several other posts: Keep my cab clear unless planning to CCW outside MD. For this purpose, have a console vault for an unloaded handgun. Mags/ammo are locked separately, not just “lockable”. Keep my GHB in the bed, under a locked, folding tonneau cover, since a survival hatchet and knife are included. Any time I have a legitimate reason to transport other firearms/ammo, that stuff rides locked in the bed.

As for my right to privacy, I figure my 1A expression of my 2A rights should not be cause for infringement of my 4A rights. I’ve also been around the block a time or two and realize it’s possible. If conditions in MD deteriorate further, I’m open to reevaluating all of this. Like numerous members have already mentioned, most of us are already in the computer. If I’m that worried about it, it’s time to pack up and leave MD.

swinokur · Jul 19, 2014

sundazes said:
Can you even fit any firearms or contraband in one of those?

Snubby or a SBR.

That's about it.

Brooklyn · Jul 19, 2014

Kagetsu said:
I always wanted to have stickers on my car. But after hearing that yes, a "This vehicle protected by Smith and Wesson" was probable cause for a search. I won't display pro-gun of political stickers. A lot depends on the cop and the judge but I don't need the prejudice.

Its not probabe cause. Its most likely not reasonable suspicion. Question is can the comunity afford the litigation? Can you?

I can't so I let them surpress my 1a rights.. ..for now.

Pick the battles..

jkeiler · Jul 19, 2014

gamer_jim said:
Cops can ask. It's been discussed here a lot and some attorneys on this board provided case law that a cop can even do a "safety search" (which can include your glove compartment but not trunk) during a traffic stop without PC.

As far a stickers go, I don't think it matters anymore. Cops have access to the MD firearms registry so they could know before they walk to your vehicle if you own.

There is a difference between PC and reasonable suspicion. Former is required for an actual search, trunk, etc., absent exigent circumstances. Latter, which is a lower standard, is still required for a safety search, etc. It is the equivalent of a pat down on the street. There has to be some reasonable and legal basis, even if it is slim, and it can't be based on race or politics.

The constitution gives people a reasonable expectation of privacy. That expectation is much reduced in a car, but does not fly out the window completely. Thus, a cop cannot stop a car for a minor traffic infraction and conduct a "safety search" for absolutely no reason other than he feels like it, or suspects the political views of the person he's stopped

Blaster229 · Jul 19, 2014

jkeiler said:
Um no you can 't and or at least shouldn't unless there is reasonable suspicion of an offense or you need to for safety reasons. Busted tail light alone does not do that. Nor does NRA sticker which also raises 1st Am issue. If officer saw something in the car suspicious or that suggested driver might be armed that is different.

Show me where it says a cop CANNOT not ask a question/engage in conversation during a stop, regardless of what stickers you might have. Nowhere.
If a person gets pulled over for X, all conversation does not have to be related to X.
Spend a few years working traffic stops. People fess up to a lot of things from simple conversation. Call those drivers stupid or whatever, but they do. These aren't cops "preying" on people. They are just guys doing their job using a viable and legal way of finding violations of the law.

Gun search question at traffic stop based on NRA sticker

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