SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    NO ONE is arguing that, just saying the statistics bear out what we've been saying....responsible, law abiding gun owners don't murder people.


    The statistics should not be hard to do. Purely from chance one would expect X number of people to be charged with murder, whether licensed or not. Then determine the same odds for permit holders and see if there is a statistically significant difference between chance and the actual results.
     

    X-Factor

    I don't say please
    Jun 2, 2009
    5,244
    Calvert County
    The statistics should not be hard to do. Purely from chance one would expect X number of people to be charged with murder, whether licensed or not. Then determine the same odds for permit holders and see if there is a statistically significant difference between chance and the actual results.

    How would you do that and not end up with a subjective answer?
     

    X-Factor

    I don't say please
    Jun 2, 2009
    5,244
    Calvert County
    I'm no math wizard, hell I can't even understand basic high school algebra anymore. :( My point is simply if you use statistics to create a "likelihood" of being murdered (not justifiable homicide) by a CCW gun owner, that isn't as solid an argument as could be. For example, saying that "Out of 46,000 CCW permits in the history of the State of Maryland, only 5 have used their handguns to commit murder." My figures are an example, not fact, but you get the point.

    IMO to make our arguments you need cold hard FACTS, not a statistical likelihood. Let the real numbers do your talking.

    Or am I WAAAY off? Just my view.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    The statistics don't really matter that much. This is a right guaranteed in the Constitution. The only way to restrict that right is to pass a Constitutional amendment repealing the 2A. At least, that is what the Framers intended.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    I'm no math wizard, hell I can't even understand basic high school algebra anymore. :( My point is simply if you use statistics to create a "likelihood" of being murdered (not justifiable homicide) by a CCW gun owner, that isn't as solid an argument as could be. For example, saying that "Out of 46,000 CCW permits in the history of the State of Maryland, only 5 have used their handguns to commit murder." My figures are an example, not fact, but you get the point.

    IMO to make our arguments you need cold hard FACTS, not a statistical likelihood. Let the real numbers do your talking.

    Or am I WAAAY off? Just my view.

    Statistics uses cold hard facts to measure how likely a given event can be attributed to pure chance. These principles are used in court all the time in, for example, discrimination in employment litigation. The techniques are legally well accepted if done by a professional. For example, 5 persons of 45,000 is roughly 0.0001 % odds. Compare that to the general population, e.g., how many people are charged with crime of violence with a firearm who are not permit holders..
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    The statistics don't really matter that much. This is a right guaranteed in the Constitution. The only way to restrict that right is to pass a Constitutional amendment repealing the 2A. At least, that is what the Framers intended.

    Sure. But if, on a practical matter, do you want to defeat TPM restrictions? Then you use these types of arguments to show that the fear is misplaced. Rational arguments do have a place in the debate.
     

    Rossi357

    Active Member
    Mar 8, 2012
    118
    Sandy Eggo
    I thought for a second that someone might not go there, but apparently I was wrong.

    It was a few years back, on a stretch of highway that I could have sworn was 65. I was on my way back from shooting/camping at some property down there at 11:00am on a weekday. The roads were completely empty. I guess the combination of those things things led me to simply not pay attention. I could have sworn I was going no faster than 75. But, apparently not.

    I got lit up, officer came up pretty pissed off, asked where I was going in such a hurry. I was honest and said officer I'm heading back home and simply was not paying attention to what I was doing and that I had no excuse. He gave me a ticket and that was the end of it. Soon as I got home I went online and paid it. Was my one and only ticket.

    Should that preclude me from owning a gun or a car? If you really think so, maybe YOU shouldn't own a car or a gun. YOU'VE never made a mistake? Mr. Perfect?

    Sorry for bringing thread off topic, had to get that off my chest.

    :sad20:
     

    AliasNeo07

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2009
    6,548
    MD

    Right. You've never sped. Never not payed attention. Whatever I'm done defending myself to you. I don't even know who you are. Go away, lol.

    Anyway, back to my original question, my google-fu is weak today. DOES going over 30mph over carry a maximum jail sentence of a year or more in jail? I wouldn't imagine so, but now I'm paranoid a 33mph over conviction (I paid the ticket immediately which is the same as pleading guilty) might preclude me.
     

    MRA

    Active Member
    Dec 10, 2010
    706
    Damascus
    It might have been mentioned but the Lott and Mustard research is well done, covers many variables and uses sound statistical methods. Part of the research uses regression analysis. It can be hard to understand but the results are sound. Look it up and read their results but don't get hung up in the details of the statistics.
     

    hooligan82

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 2, 2011
    1,359
    Baltimore county
    Right. You've never sped. Never not payed attention. Whatever I'm done defending myself to you. I don't even know who you are. Go away, lol.

    Anyway, back to my original question, my google-fu is weak today. DOES going over 30mph over carry a maximum jail sentence of a year or more in jail? I wouldn't imagine so, but now I'm paranoid a 33mph over conviction (I paid the ticket immediately which is the same as pleading guilty) might preclude me.

    I don't see any speed related violation, including street racing that has a possible jail sentence. http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/mdspeed.pdf
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    For the legal minds.

    The request for a stay and clarification was filied with Judge Legg. If Judge Legg denies the request to stay his decision pending appeal, will a request for a stay also be filed with the 4th circuit when that appeal is filed?
     

    paulstitz

    Active Member
    Jun 19, 2010
    637
    Cockeysville
    For the legal minds.

    The request for a stay and clarification was filied with Judge Legg. If Judge Legg denies the request to stay his decision pending appeal, will a request for a stay also be filed with the 4th circuit when that appeal is filed?

    That has been answered and the answer is Yes the 4th can issue the stay
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Sure. But if, on a practical matter, do you want to defeat TPM restrictions? Then you use these types of arguments to show that the fear is misplaced. Rational arguments do have a place in the debate.

    I'll buy that. The "blood in the streets" argument now has so much data to the contrary that you may as well say the sky is green. I don't understand how the anti's can still tow that line. It defies logic.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,395
    Westminster USA
    I don't understand how the anti's can still tow that line. It defies logic.


    You answered your own question. Antis, like most on the left, are not logical. They rely of feelings to make decisions and arrive at conclusions.

    Weird? you bet.
     
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