Martial arts or firearms training?

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  • Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Both.

    I had/have no formal martial arts (ma) training. Sure I participated in about a year of mandatory Army Combatives, but it was mostly PT and simplified Brizilian Ju jitsu (BJJ), see I can't even spell it :)

    But guns, especially military pistols, I became very comfortable in application.

    So about 6 months ago, as more of a challenge to myself and to get back into shape, I took an MMA class. This past week we just finished my third 6-7 week session; I was feeling pretty good. I now know I have one really good kick, powerful knees, decent elbows, but never want to 'punch' anyone in the head.

    Anyhow, after talking with several folks and doing some research, my interests (for non-gun) self defense came down to: boxing (I'm too old), karate (too traditional, one dimension), Jeet kun do, Keysi, MMA (to sports like), BJJ or Krav Maga. I just today took a 3+ hour Krav Maga special class called multiple attackers. I'll just say this much for now- wear a cup, expect to be bruised, exhausted and fight harder than you think you can.

    While continuing research to find the right self defense MA for me, I found this very alumina ting discussion: http://listverse.com/2010/05/15/top-10-martial-arts-for-self-defense/

    I think you will find their final 5 interesting, and the 'bonus' even more so... :)
     
    Feb 6, 2012
    700
    I definitely agree with using both as a form of defense. I'm currently taking Taekwondoe with a bit of Judo mixed in. I love it, but really, I want to get some Krav Maga, Muay Thai and MCMAP training (last one would require enlisting, which actually wouldn't be a bad idea at all.) Unfortunately, I'm not old enough to own a handgun yet, but I hope to get a Mossberg 500 soon for at least home defense. For now, I carry a "pen knife" which can be used as a kubaton if I fail to flip out the blade (it's a slow opener.)
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    I highly recommend judo. Standing there trading strikes with people is a losing game if they are much larger then you. You really want a trap/throwing/groundfighting based art because those will be most effective and be least dependent on size/strength. The problem is, in our legal system following people to the ground to finish a fight gets you in trouble for assault.

    A lot of BJJ guys have gotten in trouble because in court it's generally seen that you have finished defending yourself when you get the takedown and a dominant position. Going for the jointlock or whatever is considered you assaulting them.

    Judo is far better for throwing them, and leaving them incapable of getting up to fight again, and you don't get into any potential legal trouble.
     

    inkd

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 4, 2009
    7,512
    Ridge
    When I took Muay Thai classes many many years ago I was shocked at my instructors advice when a student asked him the best defense against someone. He just said, wear comfortable shoes. When the student asked if that would make it better for kicking or punching he just said, nope, that way your feet don't hurt when you run away.

    He was a staunch advocate of not fighting, but he used to say if it was an absolute positive necessity, kick balls, kneecaps, punch throats, gouge eyes, anything you have to do do to incapacitate your opponent but never, ever follow the fight to the ground.

    That being said I loved Muay Thai, I was taking BJJ too when I got transferred so I never really got comfortable with it.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    For actual defense , it is more a matter of the outlook of the instructor , that the particular style.
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    I have a brother in the navy. i showed him some bjj and he was clueless. I figured the military would have trained him more in such things. As it is, I will use any weapon available to attack the most vulnerable spots of anyone that attacks me. Currently the laws all favor the criminal. So I plan on committing the very harshest level of self defense and then walking away without filing a report. The sad truth is that being involved with the legal system almost always means you lose, one way or the other.
     

    Walter

    Active Member
    May 23, 2010
    868
    My fat ass should be back in shape by summer, so that's when I'll take Krav Maga.

    Minuteman, where are you taking your Krav classes at and what's your honest opinion about the school and instructors?
     

    Noexcuses

    Member
    Feb 8, 2012
    7
    good thread. I consider my two hands as my first line of defense. About 3weeks ago i was having a conversation at work with a security guard about different physical training techniques and about boxing. Within 5minutes of the conversation a wrestler joined in and we began to talk about fighting styles. His main point was he can wrest me down to the ground, and mines was that if he was to come anywhere within my punching range the fight would be over. After he argued we did a slight demonstration where i clearly showed him that he didnt have a chance. Not long after that a marital artist (not mma) happened to join in. After telling him that i was a boxer his quote was "you are 2D living in a 3D world" my quote was "********" lol. after the back and forth he does a demo of punches. after explaining and showing him that those types of punches, which were basically him fainting quick punches into the air to confuse me wouldnt work. he also went on to do kick demonstration, this is where he had the advantage. i wouldn’t even let him do the demo kicks to my sheens. He kept stressing to me that with boxing leave the rules in the ring. and as i told him i fight to live, meaning that every time i ever got into a street fight i fought to live and to get to a safe place. i go into the fight with the mindset of fight to the death until he/or they flee or a opportunity for me to escape . overall i did realize martial arts isnt for me,but i do want to build my legs up to withstand massive kicks so after that first blow to my legs i can set him up with a combo. We all had our different takes on styles. With that being said, the security guard had the best style with a gun on his hip and a permit.
     

    Yoshi

    Invictus
    Jun 9, 2010
    4,520
    Someplace in Maryland
    No "one" art is the "best". However, those that teach you standing, takedowns & ground fighting cover most of what you'll experience in the real world. One that comes to mind is Combat Submission Wrestling (CSW). It covers aspects of all of the martial arts including Judo, BJJ, wrestling, Muay Thai, etc... And although you can cover a wide area of techniques, as with everything else, you'll pick your own 2-3 favorite moves and make'em effective. For instance, ask any Judo guy and he'll tell you that they have very few "go to" moves... It's not how much you know, it's the effectiveness of what you favor.

    And, don't count out MMA stuff... Again, the full spectrum of techniques is what you want to focus on.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    My fat ass should be back in shape by summer, so that's when I'll take Krav Maga.

    Minuteman, where are you taking your Krav classes at and what's your honest opinion about the school and instructors?

    I started to realize I was so out of shape when I was getting out of breath walking up a few flights of stairs; it was affecting my strength, coordination, balance. I can say now that thanks largely to MMA, I'm more fit now than a couple years ago. Last year I ran only one 5K race (30 min); this year I've already committed and paid up for two 10K races, and this years Fredrick Tough Mudder (12 miles with obstacles). Oddly so far I haven't lost much weight, but I've put away my larger clothes. I've done very little diet wise, taking that part slowest, but progressing. I'm planning to try a swimming regime this summer when the pool opens.

    There are 240 Krav gyms worldwide, the closest to me is in Columbia, others are in Owingmills, DC, Gathersberg, http://www.kravmaga.com/locations/l...ldwide-officially-certified-training-centers/
    I've only visited Krav Columbia one other time before my half day of exhaustive training with them, so my opinion is of little value. One guy in the four I teamed up with said he drove from North Carolina to participate in this half day session. Krav instructors all seem highly motivated and dedicated to get the most out of students, pushing the limits while practicing a 'relative' degree of safety. True Krav was designed to be simple enough to teach a typical soldier the entire technique in 6-8 weeks (3 hours a day); the commercial Krav program says it takes the average student 6-9 months to complete level 1 (there are 5 levels). ? ! $

    There were some big BIG boys in the class, more woman than I expected (~8%), some skinny, small, few folks over 50, about 25% had super physique. I say if you have the time/money/motivation do it. They will push your limits, you probably won't get injured enough to miss work, and after a few months of dedicated attendance and effort, you will be stronger, more confident and capable both physically and mentally.

    I have not yet decided to join them, but I'm running out of excuses and not getting younger. :)
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Combination of Krav Maga and BJJ. They fit nicely together since KM doesn't really have a ground game, but is otherwise quite effective.
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    I wish I could have some martial arts/self defense training but my body just can't take it.
    My arms are screwed up from accidents when I was a kid and my back is still screwed up from a car accident 13 years ago. Unfortunately I'm pretty much forced to rely on tools for self defense rather than my physical abilities. I could punch or kick the wrong way and my back can go out for a few days, I just don't want to risk it.
    It sucks! :sad20:
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    judo and/or gracie jiu jitsu. dont waste your time with standing martial arts like karate, tae kwon doe or kenpo. even krav maga is overhyped. with the way martial arts has evolved, they are outdated and obsolete. for striking your best bet is some form of kickboxing. muay thai or even san shou. ive competed in damn near all of it, and the most effective real world stuff is grappling. flashy kicks and kung fu are ********. period. a well performed judo throw can paralyze or ill someone. the shock of their body hitting the ground is enough to take the fight out. also, in the event a fight is witnessed or on tape, the judoka or jiu jitsu person is only utizlizing DEFENSIVE techniques. you look like the victim essentially. very non confrontational. look up jason morris, stuart ramos, relson gracie, and todd tanaka. all are very good. heres where i train. best school in maryland. ive been to them all. ground control, crazy 88, nobody compares with these guys. and they are very funny people.

    www.teammarylandbjj.com
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    I'd also suggest jeff gordon MMA. Yes it has MMA in the title, but they don't teach strictly that. They do boxing, Krav, MT, Judo, BJJ etc.

    Last I heard they had a pro heavyweight boxer, Olympic level judoka, and had prof Sauer teaching BJJ twice weekly. Can't get much better then that.
     

    Wingnut

    Member me?
    Sep 29, 2010
    364
    Easton, MD
    Here's my .02 cents... (and that's all it's worth).

    Any martial art training is better than no training. Boxing and wrestling are martial arts too when it comes to instilling self discipline and learning skills potentially usefull for self defense. Having said this I will agree with previous posts that argue for judo or ju-jitsu. Almost all fights end up on the ground. You don't want to be there, but if you end up there you damn well better know what to do. ( my opinion is based on training in traditional ju-jitsu, boxing, aikido, northern shaolin kung Fu and tae Kwon do. I never mastered any of these and don't claim to be or act like a badass. I've just been in some and seen a lot when I was younger and stupider).

    What I really want to say though is that firearms training can be a martial art.
    Most of us can only take a tactical course once in a while due to cost. And I for one, can only go to the range about once a month. Also due to cost. But dry firing, weapons manipulation and malfunction drills, weapons related physical and mental training exercises... These can all be done at home on a regular training schedule much like what you would use to be proficient in your chosen fighting art. ALL martial arts are INEFFECTIVE if you don't put the time in training to pull the moves off when your under attack and scared. Train consistently and train smart so your body knows what to do even if your shitting a golden Twinkie.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Wingnut- 100% (never heard of that twinky term, I've heard it as bricks (meaning under pressure/afraid).

    Your point about firearms being a type of martial art is spot on, partly why I started this thread; train in both for self defense.
     

    Guderian

    Active Member
    Mar 31, 2011
    451
    I signed up for Krav Maga in Owings Mills because as much as I strive to improve my handgun skills, I realized I would probably never have my handgun with me when I needed it in Maryland. So far I enjoy it.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    I signed up for Krav Maga in Owings Mills because as much as I strive to improve my handgun skills, I realized I would probably never have my handgun with me when I needed it in Maryland. So far I enjoy it.

    If you don't mind: what classes (heavy bag, fitness, Krav only...) did you sign up for? How many months and how much did they want? PM me if you prefer. I'd appreciate knowing as they make it tough to find out. I think because the fees vary by gym and how busy they are (popular). Like joining any gym, can vary a bit. :)
     

    somddude

    Has a big Member
    Mar 14, 2010
    656
    Brandywine, Marylandistan
    I've trained and taught Taekwondo for many years. In those years, I've had a lot of workouts with other martial arts styles, but no other formal training. My conclusion is, there is no perfect martial art. They all have their pluses and minuses. Ground fighting is a very good complement to anyone that does not have it as part of your "style" because real life fights have a very good chance of ending up there, and with no training, you're SOL.

    The best thing to get out of any martial art is the ability to react. To anticipate what might happen, and not to freeze in a bad situation. How to take a hit and keep going. What will that take? Regular practice. So pick a martial art that you like for whatever reason, and start learning from there. A good instructor will be able to help you find further training in a different art to complement the skills you acquire.
     

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