SBR and SRS ruling by MSP
- Thread starter rcpd34
- Start date
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I don't understand how some of these assertions can be made.
Can someone help me out here? I submitted my Form 1 via efile about a month and a half ago. I am planning on SBRing a HBAR Colt, and the OAL will be greater than 29. The only evil feature will be a flash hider. Am I good to go once I get my stamp because it is not an ALG?
Or will I need a 77r for this and HQL? How does that work? And are we still measuring with stocks extended?
Can someone help me out here? I submitted my Form 1 via efile about a month and a half ago. I am planning on SBRing a HBAR Colt, and the OAL will be greater than 29. The only evil feature will be a flash hider. Am I good to go once I get my stamp because it is not an ALG?
Or will I need a 77r for this and HQL? How does that work? And are we still measuring with stocks extended?
CMIIW, but I see nothing wrong with converting an already-owned lower or AR to an SBR as long as AOL is met. It only must be on the Roster "before it may
be manufactured for distribution or sale, or sold or offered for sale in Maryland." Doesn't say you can't own it if it's not on the Roster.
I am not your lawyer.
be manufactured for distribution or sale, or sold or offered for sale in Maryland." Doesn't say you can't own it if it's not on the Roster.
I am not your lawyer.
Reminds me ... I don't have a fired shell casing from any of my AR lowers that are now at the bottom of the Bay, due to that unfortunate boating ...
The 72 hour clock is ticking ... you will be a felon by the end of the weekend
Kingjamez
Gun Builder
Yes, nothing really surprising other than this glaring omission. It seems MSP "woke up" and now is implementing the roster that probably should have happened a long time ago.
In looking it over, pre Oct. 1 Form 1's still look good to go (no mention). Post Oct. 1 Form 1 HBAR AR's that are NOT copycat's (< 29") look good to go. Form 4's are likely going to be dead for AR's / AK's as I'd bet money the board won't approve them... but someone should at least submit a factory AR SBR A.S.A.P.
The AR pistol to SBR is an interesting question, but probably moot as most of them would be less than 29" OAL.
Kriss Vector's are out without an extended muzzle break.
-Jim
If you know of a shop with a DD MK18 I'll take one for the team and form 4 it.
Providing it is in fact legal to do that... I realize it may be shot down later...
No point. I have a P556 SBR and a Glock 17 SBR waiting on form 4s. We can get a very quick response by trying to submit those to the roster.
Those are double plus fun because they're on the roster already.
Those are double plus fun because they're on the roster already.
Kingjamez
Gun Builder
No point. I have a P556 SBR and a Glock 17 SBR waiting on form 4s. We can get a very quick response by trying to submit those to the roster.
Those are double plus fun because they're on the roster already.
That's going to be a wicked barrel on that 30" Glock 17 SBR...
-Jim
"Super ultra match deluxe"
Both have pre-10/1 POs. The real problem here is how the roster board is going to handle it, and/or whether the MSP will decide that pre-10/1 guns have already been manufactured and sold. (Note that the roster law NEVER says anything about transfers.)
Technically speaking, the P556 is recoverable in a worst case scenario; I'd need to deregister it off the form 3, get back the upper, form 1 it, and then toss a muzzle brake on. It meets OAL.
The Glock is going to be a PITA in comparison.
F'em
AOWs are only a $5 tax stamp!
AOWs are only a $5 tax stamp!
JPG
Ultimate Member
If the President can change the Obamacare law 37 times without anyone challenging it why not Governors?
pc1256
Active Member
The government want to make new rules and change meanings of words too?
Dictionary says "Handgun: a gun designed for use by one hand, especially a pistol or revolver." I would like to see someone using a shot gun or a rifle with one hand efficiently
Dogabutila
Ultimate Member
- Dec 21, 2010
- 2,359
If the President can change the Obamacare law 37 times without anyone challenging it why not Governors?
Apparently there are clauses in there that allow for executive action on deadlines for enrollment and enforcement.
Which means if we elect somebody 2016 we could technically choose not to enforce any of it until 2020.
Combloc
Stop Negassing me!!!!!
So can I form 1 an HK94 ??? Hell if I know.
Alright, I've been devoting some brainpower to this. I think I may have a solution for the "SBR-from-roster-pistol on form 4" scenario.
1. FFL creates SBR on form 3 from pistol.
2. FFL submits form 4 to transfer to customer.
3. FFL immediately removes stock from rifle, and maybe attaches a VFG. This weapon is now a handgun to MD, but an SBR to the BATFE.
4. Form 4 comes back, FFL does 77r as normal handgun.
5. 77r is approved because it's on the roster.
6. Customer takes receipt of SBR, and separately, the stock.
7. Customer reattaches stock.
So, step 3 works because the BATFE has ruled that if you start with a rifle, turning it into a pistol makes it an SBR. Obviously, starting with an SBR (there's no going back to a pistol once you've made one, AFAIK), the same thing applies. Maryland has never made such a claim - your gun is what it currently is, and AOWs are considered handguns according to the MD definition. Further, you are NOT required to tell the BATFE about changes in configuration to your SBR. So, this works.
Step 6 could be a little dicey, if only because there's now two manufacturers on the gun. I would argue the original manufacturer is reasonable to put down, and isn't violating the spirit of the law - especially when we're talking about MAKING an SBR.
The grandfathering clause in SB281 also makes this troublesome for pre-10/1 copycats because the transfer is being done as a roster handgun, not an assault weapon. That’s a thinker.
1. FFL creates SBR on form 3 from pistol.
2. FFL submits form 4 to transfer to customer.
3. FFL immediately removes stock from rifle, and maybe attaches a VFG. This weapon is now a handgun to MD, but an SBR to the BATFE.
4. Form 4 comes back, FFL does 77r as normal handgun.
5. 77r is approved because it's on the roster.
6. Customer takes receipt of SBR, and separately, the stock.
7. Customer reattaches stock.
So, step 3 works because the BATFE has ruled that if you start with a rifle, turning it into a pistol makes it an SBR. Obviously, starting with an SBR (there's no going back to a pistol once you've made one, AFAIK), the same thing applies. Maryland has never made such a claim - your gun is what it currently is, and AOWs are considered handguns according to the MD definition. Further, you are NOT required to tell the BATFE about changes in configuration to your SBR. So, this works.
Step 6 could be a little dicey, if only because there's now two manufacturers on the gun. I would argue the original manufacturer is reasonable to put down, and isn't violating the spirit of the law - especially when we're talking about MAKING an SBR.
The grandfathering clause in SB281 also makes this troublesome for pre-10/1 copycats because the transfer is being done as a roster handgun, not an assault weapon. That’s a thinker.
This ruling effectively kills this loophole, too. AOWs are handguns in MD law; you'd need to submit to the roster board.
safecracker
Unrepentant Sinner
- Feb 26, 2009
- 2,405
Only for transfers are the stamps $5. If you intend on making one, the stamp is $200.
Who is going to be the first to submit a KEG-12 to the roster board?
iHasCrabs
Ultimate Member
So would a form 1 of a pre 10/1 lower me good to make an 11.5" barreled sbr with an overall length of 29.5?
I also have a form 1 on a walther mp5 22 out.
I'm interested to see how your glock sbr is handled.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
I also have a form 1 on a walther mp5 22 out.
I'm interested to see how your glock sbr is handled.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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